I will request some form of reimbursement for time lost at the tables
once your investigation is finished. 200 Iron Man points for each day
missed, and perhaps some FPP's, as you have done for other players this
week.

You've got a nerve.

Acceptance is the key.

My thoughts exactly.

The argument seems to be: I hate shortstackers (probably because I'm too big of a simpleton to make basic adjustments), and shortstackers play more like robots that I do (probably because I'm spewy) so its fine with me if they seize a shortstacker's roll for being a bot, even if he's not.


That a player can be in favor of arbitrary seizures of another player's funds simply because he shortstacks is beyond me.

No, it's really not funny...and you have absolutely no way of knowing if it's true. You're a tool and you haven't even said anything in this thread of any value at all. LOL at your misplaced arrogance.

It would be very very difficult to write a bot that plays like me. (That's not to say I play well or poorly, just in such a style that it could not be confused with software)

I hate short stackers because
(A) They annoy me.
(B) Their strategy is easily played by bots and currently available software.

Guess what - reason "A" I can live with, "B" is too far.


Also, I'm not linking the site - but you can find it if you want where on their forums they are up in arms about their short stacking software causing members to get banned by FT.

I do agree though that FT have gone about this the wrong way, the 20bb buyin for NL games suits the sites but is open to abuse.
This banning thing is a result of their attempt to single out bots or assisting software, they may or may not be successful in telling the difference.

Simple answer 50bb min buyin for all games.

This. There's the argument you always here when someone is defending a person's right to make hate speech or the like: I may not like what you have to say, but I'll fight with my last breath for your right to say it.

It's a slippery slope allowing them to take the short stacks money and get away with it.

First they came for the shortstackers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a shortstacker.

death to shortstackers! hahahaha

THEN THEY CAME FOR THE BUMHUNTERS

AND I DID NOT SPEAK OUT

You obviously haven't been following "The War on Terror"...

some of you guys in here are seriously out of line imo. i mean, i hate people that 3bet me all over the place, but i'm not gonna laugh when another player loses money they earned without breaking any rules just because they way they play might annoy me on the tables. nobody deserves to have their money taken away if they didn't do anything against the rules. whether or not the rules should be changed is an entirely different debate, but its not good for sites to just start shutting people down without actually changing any rules or giving any sort of warning about policy/enforcement changes.

I concur!

Guys,
This is not/was never about short stacking.It's about prohibited software.

QFT. Most of the people in this thread are just too selfish and stupid to understand that this kind of thing is - for all players. Even if it wasnt, maybe having some empathy if one of your peers gets robbed might be human.

Actually, FTP won't tell anyone what it's about.

The only communications so far have been along the lines of "We don't like you, because you look like a troublemaker. We've had problems with your kind in the past. We're not saying you've done anything, but we're going to have to ask you to leave."

I have no love for short stackers but please understand the difference between simplistic "I hate short stack" mentality and the argument I'm putting across.

This is not about short stackers, this is about software used by a lot of people who happen to be short stackers.

Also to be clear I would like to hear an explanation and clarification from FTP Doug on exactly what's going on.

This is not that simple.

They reproach him to use automated software that can recommend him whether to fold/call/raises. But shortstacking strategy is very automatic and robot-like and makes confusions and errors a real possibility. I think this is why people suspects shortstacking to be the problem at the first place... People just try to guess what causes OP to have been banned. I think that says a lot about FTP communication......

If FTP is going to start confiscating bankrolls for shortstacking, they should put a disclaimer up before entering a table such as "SHORT STACKING SYSTEMS ARE PROHIBITED AT THIS TABLE"

When someone like OP starts a thread here that says, "I'm an open book. Here's everything I know. FTP please tell me WTF is going on." FTP's reps need to get on the ****ing ball and make a statement in said thread ASAP. It's ridiculous that they have how many people in this thread expressing concern over their security measures and worrying about the safety of their rolls on FTP and yet there hasn't been a peep out of them. I've seen this same scenario play out over and over dozens of times. They just don't seem to ****ing care. They take their sweet time answering emails as well and getting any sort of detailed response from them is like pulling teeth.

I've now seen enough of these threads that I'm going to pull everything but the bare, bare minimum from FTP right now. I need to think over the next day or so about whether or not it's worth playing there at all.

There have been several accounts banned or investigated, and shortstacking is a common denominator among many of them. Mine was one of them and I didn't use any prohibited software.

Ratholing is clearly taking advantage of a quirk in the rules, and you cannot do it at just any casino. It's easy to do at FT because of the number of tables available at the lower limits.

Having said that, if FT is going to start banning ppl for ratholing, then they need to say that is their reason.

Hello FTP,

I'm not raking a penny until I hear an explanation.

I don't thing FT is out of line here. They have only closed the account, not seized the funds. From other high profile bot cases discussed on 2+2, fund seizure is rarely done only in the most cut-and-dry cases. (See FTPSean's post in the related thread)

It is analogous to a vegas casino escorting out the blackjack player they suspect is counting cards. They don't take your chips, they just make it clear you are no longer welcome to continue betting...

I agree that FT support emails leave a lot to be desired -- the tone and lack of clarity is directly responsible for all the confusion and misinformation in this thread IMO.

It is not so apparent that they are not taking his funds. When I was excluded from the site, in my email they very clearly outlined how I can get my funds, in Sober's email quoted in the first post, they do not mention this and there is a line somewhere I believe saying that people using prohibited software will have their funds siezed.

FTP's apparent practice of "we believe people who are guilty of X do Y- so let's take a look at players who exhibit Y- wait no let's suspend them in the meantime and then look closer" has to stop.