Stars has 50bb min buyin tables so you can filter out tables with short stacks and not deal with them.

From my point of view it is just about time that either FTP or PS will change the minimum buyin to 40bb (30bb would not help at all). As mentioned before the "deep" tables are not really played by the random visitor.

From my own point of view I see shortstacking like a litte "bug" in the game, that the creators were not thinking of, when they developed poker rules. It is of course right, that short stacking is by far not that easy and there are huge differences between the different styles. Some play 15/14 others play 8/8 and you find a lot nits on the tables tighter than 15/14 at the NL100 to NL400 FR tables.

"Learn how to beat them" - is a argument often used, but from my point of view that is not easily be done. The problem is you have to play the table, not the 2-5 shorties on it. If you raise very small you give the other big stacks better odds to call with all the specualtive hands, if you raise bigger you give the shorties a good reason to push. You can barley isolate a fish with a good hand in early/middle position, because you will have 3 short stacks behind you pushing around. KQs is definitely a super nice hand to isolate a fish, but sucks against the 3bet-push of a shorty.

Check your database and look up the shorties, I am sure many will be amazed that they are not up against many of them.

Probably the easiest way to get rid of them, would be to disallow professional shortstacking in the T&C, so that recreational players can enjoy the games with 20bb as everywhere, but the professional shortstackers are getting banned.

I honestly think, that if FTP or Stars would make the 1st move, many many short stackers would move to the other site, makeing it unplayable. As reaction many regulars and even recreational players will move to the site that offers the shorty-free games with the result that the poker site that will be the 1st mover could even increase business - with the right marketing!

Lets see what happens.

I think SSers are mainly a problem at the mid to high stakes NLHE games (in particular FR). Once you reach a certain degree of competence, a SS strategy is unbeatable. Presumably, the ones still playing at the micro to small stakes suck, and so that's why you get the chorus of smaller players saying stupid **** like "adjust" or "most of them are fish".

They are a waste of seat, that is the main problem. But i dont think sites are ever going to ban 'pro' shortstackers so ...

That is what I say. Take a mediocre-good playing short stacker and put him on the table with the 9 best FR NL HE highstakes players on the world. The shorty would make money in the longrun.

Take the 10 best FR player in the world and sit him down and he will be a losing player.

And it is just the beginning. Wait till the 1 billion chinese and all the russians/belarus/urkaine people play. A winrate of .50bb/100 gives them a reason to play 24/7 because they would earn with terrible hard work $200-400 in a month.

SH you find more and more ss as well.

yeah, i USED to play 100nl FR on FT but now

every table has AT least 2 short stackers, and the majority have 3-4 and a fair amount(usually the open tables without a waitlist) have 5-7, 1 full stack sitting out and another full stack playing.

so yeah, you can play, if you're willing to wait 10-15mins to load up all your tables and constantly weed out/wait list new ones while multitabling.

but really it's not worth it. because it takes 4 secs to play six max.

Totally agree with you but at the same time "less profitable" and "less enjoyable" on account of what is simply an angle shoot (ratholing) is still pretty bad for anyone playing poker.

Well, you could learn to beat them, you could use the deepstack tables that FTP has, or you could come on 2+2 to complain.

As far as the OP, I guess I don't see why it's such a big deal to just raise the min buy in to 40-50 bb;s. I don't know of any live casino's in my area that allow a 20 bb bi. I'm pretty sure the big two sites try to compare, or set their rules inline with "live poker".

I'm guessing it's an oversight, and I actually would be surprised if FTP didn't do something about it soon. They could even put some sort of marketing spin on it like "all new buy ins, more realistic and bigger pots!" or something.

Again, simple solution is setting the min buy in to 40, or a standard 50-100 bb's. You can't say this pushes a fish out, it doesn't push anyone out of the game, you can always just move down a limit. Surely everyone has a buy in for 1c-2c if necessary?

You have not read a single thing in any thread that involves what the SS or MS/HS regs have said.

Typical dumbass, just trying to act cool.

BTW, I'm playing NL 100 right now on FTP. Anyone dare to look at all the tables and tell me how many have less than 3 short stackers? Hell, I'll even let you have 3 per table. Look.

Her? I'm a guy IMO.

I wasn't trolling either. I mean what answer could there be other than to learn to beat them. Or play the deep tables.

Also being green has nothing to do with poker ability as someone already suggested. I'm a mod in an off topic forum so...

Oh soweeee gtp, it was the posting topless thing I swear!

Its ok I'm just a ****ing wanker

son, I knew Watty was a wanker long before NOFX put out their first EP on Mystic.

And here I thought you were just a fisherman

adjust to current conditions or go work at mcdonalds

This right here is what keeps me from tilting much. It's actually where I would have to go if I fail at the pokerz.

Get your EDU boys and girls.

I think I was hoping for something better than this in my OP. But then, it does seem that superficial and flippant is what now passes for deep.

I'm only a recreational player, primarily at the $200NL level. It greatly lowers the quality of the game, in my mind, when 4 or 5 of my opponents are sitting on $40 stacks and playing push/fold preflop poker.

I think if I were doing this for a living, I would be seriously concerned. Just my opinion.

There are shortstack on Stars too...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...stgate-615285/

Unless you gear your game to specifically beat shorties (to hell with the other big stacks), the short stacks are unbeatable. They have a statistical and mathematical edge over the rest of the deep stack table. It's poker theory. If you are playing a proper deep stack game, you will do good to break even against them. Those of you saying "learn how to beat them" simply do not know what you are talking about. Those of you saying "they are horrible players" also don't know what you are talking about. They use HUDs - they know your 3bet/steal/call 3 bet ranges. The only way you are punishing them is by running good against them. Bottom line is they found a loophole in the game that allows them to mindlessly play 16 tables of barely above break even poker and collect their rakeback. And the bad thing is that the problem is definitely getting worse everyday. FTPDoug has said they are looking into doing something about it but I'm not holding my breath.

Ominous words from a man making post 666.

I'm already calculating how many hands I'll need to make supernova. Actually should be quite easy for me since I play a ton of volume.

this, except theres quite a lot of shortstackers that just suck and arent the 'professional shortstacking' types

Yeah, in the micros... but even at NL100 there are some solid SSers.