raked rebuys in 3.5$R = smaller prize pools = driving regs away from them since the rake is larger as 10%
2.5$ and 8$ 180mans become even more reg-heavy as these games aren't changed in rake yet .

who said that there are raked rebuys in 3R$ 180s ?

I already email them; of course they prob wont give a damn about it...they are shooting their own leg, and there is something very fishy about the hole thing..does not make sense at all...so we will see this plot developing....Such a pitty since they were best by far...not anymore..
They should be "cutting"rake truly.

Copy mail below

Hello there.
What you are doing it's a disgrace for poker online; you are killing the game.
It was almost unbearable to beat the game ( others players PLUS your rake)
Now you showed a trend to cut on everything and make more money; nothing wrong with that except that you collide with your own statment when you bought the company. "No major changes...."...you lied to us all.
You want to profit by "cutting off"... and all you are going to do it's to make playing at Pokerstars, a more "gambling"& a lot less "poker"experience.
I, (and I guess lots of others) will kindly response to the challenge by looking more and more into other sites to play.
In the long run, you will have a lot more of "casino"players, and a lot less of "poker"players.
I'm guessing rigth away, it will cost you money by the end of the tale.
Time will tell.
But you set the course of divorce already.

Kindly
Diego Heidenreich
aka pocketfish

on OP
.

i guess the whole point is to keep worst players play for longer, have some fun (instead of being ripped apart right after depo) and rake-bleed slowly

i kinda feel sorry for you guys who got whacked with these changes, but it might have been a lesser evil move, before we (as regs) would kill this game totally

i wouldnt dare to judge bumhunters, or people sitting in on 6max only when fish sits down, its what best for you and your money gains and driven by my own interest i would do the same
but i guess it was bad for poker itself, as a whole economy, pushing games into ridiculous reg:fish ratio and killing the entertaiment for the weakest players (and beside gambling addiction the thrill of entertainment is what makes people redeposit again)

by those moves amaya want some of us to leave poker (by simply decreasing the profits to a level, when you can get similiar, and less stresful 9-5 job in most developed countries )

it could have been done otherwise, but it is as it is, and you either adapt or look for another job

Most people in this thread still fail to understand one simple thing.Online poker room will only exist if amount of money deposited exceeds amount of money withdrawn by winning players and rake taken by the room.When someone say something like - regs are the most valued customers because they're making 80% of profit for PS by paying huge amount of rake - don't understand that all this money they pay in rake come from recreational depositing players in first place.Amaya/Stars should review their reward program and change current situation with grinders playing millions hands a year,constantly losing money,but still able to make a good living because of RB.No offence to those hard working people,but this is just wrong.If you losing money playing 24 tables,you should deposit more and get better,but expecting to get reward for your bad play is just plain wrong.Once again,i'm not trying to offend anyone,i used to grind 24 tables and i know how hard it can be and how much time and dedication it takes. On the other hand increasing rake by PS without changing their reward program not going to solve anything,grinders will only start grinding more,to get same RB and some will probably withdraw their balances out of anger,but in reality there's still no better place to play poker then PS.There should be another way to resolve current very unpleasant situation.

rake, how does it work?

I highly doubt that u r a reg, A LESSER EVIL MOVE??? R U KIDDING ME? How does raking more money helps the game at all, eliminating some of the current regs just creates new regs, for the fish it's about the same. It's the player that is getting screwed stopping talking about regs as if were cancer, we are the players.

Rake kills recreational players faster as well, it's not only the regs who are getting raped. In fact recreational players are getting it even worse since they don't have high VIP levels.

What dou mean ?

This condition is met all the time. Even when the reg makes most of rake.

I dont use real numbers, but some from random from my head as an example.

Fish deposits 100 $

Reg vs fish playes, and they make rake of 50 $ till the fish looses all his money.

Because of rake, reg has 50 $. He cashes out.

So the the condition is met - there is deposited 100$ and cashed out 50$.

Reg happy cause he won and room happy cause he won also. Fish happy cause he had a good time


-----------------

Yea, actually if the fish would have played roulette, then he would have lost all his 100$ to the house in one of the 2 ways - rake of roulette or just allin an bad luck.

If fish goes allin with the reg and he looses, the reg cashes out and money is not visible for the room anymore.

But would fish deposit the same 100$ if he knows that he plays roulete and not vs a human. Maybe he would deposit and loose only 50 $.
That is what I am not sure about.
Even fish I guess understands that play vs human is much better than play vs house.

It might be that fish would deposit 90 $ for gambling vs house and would deposit 100$ to play against human.

THen when he plays roulette - house takes all 90 $. If he plays poker - house takes 50$. So even if fish deposits less to play vs house it might be still more profitable for the house than fish depositing more for poker.

But I have no real data of course, its just an example.

If you are not paying for it, you are not the customer, you are part of the product. That`s pretty much how it is, essentially regs are not paying anything we are part of the product in that, that we play against the paying customer(fish).

What I wonder is if PS in investing in "inventing" new games. Take Hearthstone for example, is a huge success(In my lectures at university I see like 3-4 people at least playing constantly), there prob is a market for realmoney games of Hearthstone as well. Hopefully that new rake is at least spend in an area like this instead of just going to the pockets of greedy mother****ers.

HU CAP players mass sitout/cashout protest
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29.../#post45099988

Why dont we organize a day we will not grind SNGS/MTTS

U can't just take the share of players who r benefitial to u, u have to consider players as whole, in order to have losers u need winners. No winners, no value, no game, no site. If everybody breaks-even then everybody is a loser to the site, nevertheless, if this is true the site wont last long, people will stop playing if there's no goal to achieve.

because its a classic prisoner dilemma which wouldnt work ?

Im sorry but i can´t keep up with the idea that "REGs" are killing the game. If all the "REGs" were to disappear, then some fish would become the new "REGS" and they would stop depositing.
Also a "REG" is always playing, making the house win a lot more, while a fish can just win and stop for months. They do free advertising, they promote the game if they are any good at it just by being WINNERS. A house needs winners just so everyone think they can have a shot at it... mess with the regs, make them unhappy and turn them into losers and poker will die.

There will be new regs but maybe this will be like back in 2003 - very little amount of regs and with very little edge over other fish?

Maybe that is what they are aiming for.

Yeah and those look at the amount of money they can make and start improving like hell so they can become huge winners. Amaya just has to improve player base by keeping everyone happy. Its ok to increase some things and decrease others... Killing the game and causing this uproar is not the ideal scenario in my opinion. But im a dumb**** who doesnt own a billion dollar company so i know my opinion counts for nothing.

Since BF times have been tough for those trying to earn a basic wage grinding sit n gos at lower stakes. Losing the monthly $50,000 triple shootout event was a unfortunate because you could sometimes pick up $195 from that (or much more if you were lucky enough to win the first two shootouts). But abolishing the BOP altogether? I'm not sure what I'd average in yearly income from BOP money alone at $3.5 or $7 stakes, but well over $1,000 I would say, and over $2,000 at $7.
When times are tough and many grinders are struggling to get by, its likely to be the nail in the coffin that sends thousands of people out to find part time or full time jobs rather than being sat playing on pokerstars 40 hours per week.

Has anyone any cliffs (links etc. messages, statements) for this rumor that PS is gonna reduce rakeback in 2016 heavily?

Any link to a statement? I hear it soooo often.

“While we are making only this one change this year, it follows a substantial review of the PokerStars VIP Club conducted earlier this year,” said Director Day. “We are considering more significant changes for implementation in 2016. Details will be available in the second half of next year.”

thats what i found

the main issue shouldn't be about winning players (AKA 'regs') vs losing players. The problem is the way those "regs" act/behave on/off the table.

"regs" bashing recreational players in the chat after losing an all in after being ahead. Or in general laughing at them. And the most crazy thing about it is those "regs" are always pure bumhunters. that's a disgrace.

"regs" who angle shoot all day long, or pushing every possible edge/hole to the limit. all those pathetic nitfish bumhunters scripters. They think those recreational players are some stupid donators addicted to gambling and they don't understand what's going on and they will just keep playing/donating no matter what.


They should ask all those nosebleed bumhunters what is the state of nosebleed stakes today, and where all the fish are. I think everyone here knows the answer for that one. The same goes for pretty much every stake online just on different scales and paces.

wake up, you are not fun to play with, and that's why they are (recreational players) stop depositing. And that's what brings these evil changes eventually.

There's a thread called "SNE changes 2015" or something. It's explained there.




I was just browsing PokerStars.fr - and guess what - their Spin n Go buy ins are capped at 10€. It's just 1€, 2€, 5€, 10€ .

It's interesting, FCOOP starts in two days and right now there are 44k players online (184k for PS.eu and 16k for FTP right now).

Aren't french players very fishy? Maybe it's the better site in the end in regards of fish-ratio vs rake--

Jesus, at least when Rationale bent us over they used lube...

Feel terrible for everyone who depended on Stars for a living. Where is there even to go? Party practically started the war on regs with their segregation and cashout fees. 888 still continues to steal 10% a month from dormant accounts as well as a zillion other shady practices. Ipoker doesn't care who rapes their customers with bots as long as everyone keeps paying rake. Security is an absolute joke across the board with the exception of Stars. It's really a ****ty situation for all, they have everyone by the balls and they know it.

I have read in another forum that party is not allowing registration if you are from country which most of players are regs like Lithuania

But at least I better know that I am not welcome than being uncertain.