Hi Everyone:

I don’t know if what this poster is saying here is accurate or not, but I do know to be cautious of anything he claims. As an example of why I feel this way here is a link to Post #28 that he wrote under a different name on his own forum:

https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...l=1#post811226

In this post he states that Mike Minkoff is a Two Plus Two author, which is not true, and that he wrote a 2+2 published book titled “Professional Poker,” and we have no book by that title. (Years ago there was a book called Professional Poker by someone named Mark Blade, but we had nothing to do with this book or this author.)

Now these statements on the other forum by Kilowatt/Druff/Witeles are harmless and we don’t care about them. But I think they’re an example of someone who seems to make up facts to further his narrative whatever that narrative may be. So again, my advice for any of our readers here is to make sure you’re able to confirm any facts or conjectures that Kilowatt makes before running with them. And again, I don’t know enough about this particular topic to comment on it.

Best wishes,
Mason

I am not too computer savvy. I hope this posts correctly. It shows that the rule was added Jan 2nd. And it was not there Dec 2nd.

I think I have it now.

actually i won 127,000 off playing nl 4000 heads up vs Bizingo/ ben affleck .. so that was the bulk of it

during this "play money stage" of the site

Yeh its all kind of bs.. for you.
I mean i guess they should not have let u play these tables since u did not have the deposit thing lined up and were not supposedly elgible.

the last cached page was dec 2nd and the page was then updated jan 2nd to change the "new" rules

Pablo22-

You're saying 5dimes made this rule after you had won the $50k? that is ridiculous.

Hope you get paid man.

I have been trying to explain to them it is best to make this right, this is the latest email.


Thank you for contacting us. After checking the transcript of the chat you had with our Supervisor Zed, it looks like you already got an explanation of this. I understand you don't see this as an abuse of any of our bonus programs however, playing for three years without making a deposit, using our software and possibly taking time from clerks and people behind all the business which cost some money as well, let me tell you that is abuse. Any of the information provided has changed since you chat with our supervisor, as mentioned over the chat: prizes, bonuses, and winnings are honor for active customers only.
Let us know if you need further assistance.

Best regards,
Desiree
Customer Service Department

pretty sick contact osga and file complaint

Bull ****, unreal

Make this right 5dimes

Hi Mason,

It appears that, yes, I made an error regarding an inconsequential detail. Apparently Mr. Minkoff did NOT write a book called "Professional Poker", nor does 2+2 publish such a book.

I apologize to Mr. Minkoff and 2+2 for tihs error, which you yourself have admitted was "harmless", but felt the need to disrupt this totally unrelated thread to point out.

While we have you here, and while we're talking about 2+2 authors, I would like to ask you a question.

Nick Grudzien, aka Stoxtrader, left the poker world in shame in 2010 when he was outed as a multiaccounter and colluder. After much dodging and avoiding of the accusations, he finally admitted to the multiaccounting part, but denied the collusion. However, some of the bright and well respected minds of 2+2 proved pretty conclusively that he was colluding with a close friend. Nick was thrown off of Pokerstars after their investigation of the matter.

https://www.flopturnriver.com/poker-...grudzien-12408

Oddly, 2+2 decided to continue publishing and selling his book, and it is still sold to this day.

https://www.twoplustwo.com/books/aut...ader-grudzien/

https://www.twoplustwo.com/books/pok...-holdem-games/

I am wondering why 2+2 made the decision to continue carrying this book, given the damning information that came out about this author on 2+2's own forum.

I look forward to your response, though I do believe we should avoid hijacking Pablo's thread any further. Perhaps its own thread would be better?

Let me know if you would like me to link you to the relevant threads.


Best Wishes,
Todd

Wtf is this bs? The worst response I have ever heard from a cs. What's the difference if op made like a ten dollars deposit two years ago?

It is so outrageous. It is beyond belief. How can they say this stuff with a straight face.

"playing for three years without making a deposit"

For **** sake, he didn't need to make a deposit, he won a little money on a Freeroll that you provided and then ran it up, so a deposit was not necessary, you ******* ***holes.

Sorry for the language, it's intolerable and indefensible what they are claiming.

I disrupted this thread because I have seen other statements by you which sound legit but they're not, and I wanted to make sure our posters/readers are aware of this.

Two examples involving me concern how I'm not a charitable person and your comments on my book Real Poker Psychology.

A third example was the poker room manager at the Palms who was probably guilty of mismanagement but nothing more.

Okay. Rest assured I'm quite aware of this and had at the time some private conversations with Mr. Grudzien which I think helped in the moving of Stox Poker to Card Runners.

We made the decision to continue selling this book for several reasons which have been addressed on this forum before.

1. We think it's a good book.

2. We don't think it's fair to Geoff Herzog, the other author on the book who shares the royalty with Nick Grudzien, to stop selling it.

3. We have a contract with the authors that says we'll sell the book

4. 2+2 made a large investment in printing the book and that original printing is still not close to being sold out. So stopping sales on the book would also punish us even though current sales today are very small, mostly due to the rise in popularity of no-limit hold 'em.

You have my response above. My recommendation to you is to make sure you get your facts straight and don't, as you did in the post I linked to, make up things, even if they're harmless, that fits the narrative you want to give.

You can do whatever you want.

MM

Mason, how stupid do you think your users are?

Do you really expect anyone to believe that you interrupted this thread with a complete hijack, because you're legitimately concerned about my credibility regarding my statements about Full Flush Poker?

It is very clear that you have a longstanding grudge against me, and you try to find any opportunity to criticize me, even at the expense of ruining a useful thread on your own forum. Anyone with half a brain can tell that you're posting this stuff out of bitterness for past perceived slights, rather than any genuine concern for users.

Besides, what I'm stating about Full Flush can be quickly verified by browsing just a few posts in a huge thread ON YOUR OWN FORUM. Try reading it sometime.

The way it stands now, you're calling my statements about Full Flush (which are easily verifiable) into question, and therefore letting the guilty off the hook, all because of a grudge dating back to 2008. Good job.

Regarding Stoxtrader the Colluder/Multiaccounter, the real reason you're still selling the book is this:

Basically, your pursuit of the almighty dollar often trumps your own morality. Care to tell us again how long you took to drop Lock Poker ads AFTER the credible reports of them being insolvent?

Basically one of your authors turned out to be a multiaccounting and colluding scumbag. You could have easily pulled the book at that point, but you didn't want to "punish 2+2" (your own words) given the money already invested, so you quietly kept selling the book, and left up the glowing statements about Grudzien on his author page. Shameful.

You claim there's a contractual issue. I haven't seen the contract, but I know you use a large, highly respected law firm. I'd be shocked if the contract didn't give you an "out" to stop publishing the book due to cheating or other immoral behavior by one of the authors. If it didn't, you need to hire a new law firm to write your contracts.

Obviously almost 9 years later, this isn't a huge issue by itself, but maybe you should look in the mirror before calling my own credibility into question.

You will see that my posts are overwhelmingly helpful and attempt to assist with helping victims and outing the scammers. I'm not bothering you here. How about you leave me alone in threads like this, and go back to counting the few pennies per day you're making by selling your soul by continuing to publish a book by a known cheater?

Out of respect for Pablo, this will be my last post in this thread about the matter. Pablo, I apologize for this hijack, but I didn't want to let this misleading attack on my credibility by the 2+2 forum owner to go unanswered.

What the hell does any of this have to do with the thread...

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

When it's your own swimming pool there's no one to stop you from taking a **** in it every once and a while. It's especially tempting when that annoying neighbor kid is over that told his mom you were smoking around him. You can put the blame on him and hope that the other kids don't want to hang out with him any more. You have to expect that the annoying kid will try to defend himself against the allegation. If it upsets the kids that have to get out of the pool for a second, well, tough ****, because it's your ****ing swimming pool and you felt like taking a **** in it.

I hope that clears it up for you BornToRun. I'm not good with analogies.

Hopefully the thread starter gets his money though.

well this is ****...
Their notion you didn't contribute any (rake)money to the site because you built your roll with freeroll money is beyond stupid but I can see that people who didn't really think about rake and how a poker site makes money could actually think this way....

Your next question should be:
Where is your company located / In which jurisdiction do I have to sue you

PS: I am serious about the legal action. Especially since they added their biggest arguement to the ToS just after you won. This looks so damn fishy that I cannot imagine a judge ruling against you.
If you win 100% they should have to pay your lawyer fee as well. And maybe the best thing is:
If you show them that you got the screenshots of the ToS before and after (and maybe explain to them that you playing at their tables for 3 years made them money because you won money that you kept in the economy of the site where it got raked) AND that you are serious about sueing them, there is a high chance that they don't want to take the risk to pay high legal fees.

PPS: You should also see if you can press criminal charges like fraud in their jurisdiction and threaten them with this.
If they added the ToS after the fact and deny your winnings because of this, this should constitute fraud pretty much everywhere. Only thing is, that not every country do have criminal law for companies as entities. Could be a bit difficult to single out the individuals who got the stone rolling. If the jurisdiction persue criminal charges with general attorneys, you could just make a former notice to them so they would investigate. Maybe they want to hear you as a witness though.

Damn, I hope everything turns out good for you in the end, OP. I can't beileve these people making up rules in the moment just to deny their players their rightful money.

I remember winning like $300 back in the UB days after winning a freeroll and I didn't have any problems cashing out. And I never made a deposit there. I've never heard of such a rule.

And if you had $800 and you won $75 in the freeroll then you must have payed the site more than their $75 back in rake and fees. I would take this **** to court if I was you.

Where is this site located? For a supervisor his grammar is ****ing utter **** lol

The best way to help Pablo is to email the grand poker room and tell them you want to deposit as a new player but you won’t because you heard they steal from people who win freerolls.

If enough people email them than they will prolly release his money

This is such bs, I'll take every dime I have on the site off of it if they don't ultimately pay you*. I don't think I've heard a worse story of someone being dicked over in the past few years. Has your story made it to any other sites? SBR or sportsbook review sites? Feel like bettors should know if a site is willing to be this ****ty. Does 5dimes have a rep on here or elsewhere?

*assuming there isn't any more to this story

This is legitimately one of the worst things (possibly the worst?....i mean this is far worse than the FTP black friday thing) I've ever seen a site do. I have nothing to do with this situation at all and reading that live chat transcript actually made me angry.

Adding a rule after the fact and then using it to prevent someone from collecting is pretty ****ing terrible.

It's actually fraudulent and should end up in a jail sentence. If I was 5Dimes I'd be paying him know that they've been found out just so to avoid that situation.

Right.

You've exchanged enough love letters. Threaten to sue then do it.

A threat without the ability to carry it out will have no impact. I agree that trying to reason with them is pointless, but this OP needs to find someone in this industry who will work on his behalf (for likely a cut of any proceeds).

I have been on more rooms and networks than I can remember, but I never had any dealings with this place, but if they have an affiliate program then they likely have some large affiliates that work with them. Perhaps some of them are posting here (like raketherake if they use them, no idea if they do).

Various news organizations (whichever ones that are stilla round and relevant) should be contacted in a professional manner, such as pokerstrategy pokernews etc. 2+2 is kind of meh in that regard as its more of a forum of many voices, but there may be some that have a bit more impact. If 2+2 has no dealings with this company (seems likely given the owners odd derail posts to that electricity person in this thread) then not much could be had here aside from some public furor, which unfortunately passes over time. Pressure needs to be put on by someone who can apply pressure that has an impact, and at that point one can talk about suing.

I wish the OP luck. He PMed me, but I have no experience with this room/network so I would not be of much help other than to provide some general advice, but if anyone else could be of help (ie: they have actual experience with this room/network) then step up and do it.