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01-05-2014 , 05:16 PM

FixYourFace

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This is the response I got from 5Dimes concerning how even table in tournaments.

The system automatically balances the tables and there is no discussion on how it does it. Again, due to the dynamics of the games and the server load the tables are evened up not only in players per table but also by chip stack. For example if out of the 12 players 5 have very high stacks and the remaining 7 players have smaller stacks the system will favor the stacks instead of the players per table. It wouldn't be fair to have 1 player sitting next to 5 others who have 5 or 10 times the chips he has."

*

Just so there is no confusion this is copied right from the email from 5Dimes they are admitting saying their tournament seating is rigged!

This is the answer we got to your new inquiry:

" Thanks for the reply.

The system automatically balances the tables and there is no discussion on how it does it. Again, due to the dynamics of the games and the server load the tables are evened up not only in players per table but also by chipstacke. For example if out of the 12 players 5 have very high stacks and the remaining 7 players have smaller stacks the system will favor the stacks instead of the players per table. It wouldn't be fair to have 1 player sitting next to 5 others who have 5 or 10 times the chips he has."

Best regards,

Coco
5Dimes Casino & Sportsbook
Customer Service Department
1-800-430-5896
1-800-305-3517

*

I encourage people to send them emails and try bring subjects like these to the attention of the poker community.

info@5dimes.eu

Last edited by Mike Haven; 01-09-2014 at 05:29 PM. Reason: 3 posts merged

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01-05-2014 , 05:29 PM

MutantTurtle

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01-05-2014 , 05:30 PM

pissychips

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SHHHHEEEEEEEEEIIIT!

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01-05-2014 , 06:48 PM

TiltedDonkey

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I don't know that "cheating" is the right word for that, but it sounds... wrong... to be sure.

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01-05-2014 , 06:57 PM

ArmenH

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That couldnt have been an actual response from their support.

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01-05-2014 , 07:36 PM

xalas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FixYourFace

This is the response I got from 5Dimes concerning how even table in tournaments.

The system automatically balances the tables and there is no discussion on how it does it. Again, due to the dynamics of the games and the server load the tables are evened up not only in players per table but also by chip stack. For example if out of the 12 players 5 have very high stacks and the remaining 7 players have smaller stacks the system will favor the stacks instead of the players per table. It wouldn't be fair to have 1 player sitting next to 5 others who have 5 or 10 times the chips he has."

how is that cheating? don't all poker sites balance out in a similar way ?
The way i see it, it is saying
if 100,000 chips are in play on two tables and broke down like this

1 25,000
2 23,000
3 16,000
4 11,000
5 5,000
6 4,000
7 4,000
8 3,000
9 3,000
10 2500
11 2500
12 1,000

They are not going to set
at one table 6 players

25,000
23,000
16,000
11,000
5,000
1000

and the other
4,000
3,000
3,000
2500
2500

table one isn't fair to the player with only 1k in chips

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01-05-2014 , 08:01 PM

#7

DonkeyQuixote

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Tables break during a tournament and players are sent to open seats at other tables.

Are you saying that, at 5Dimes, when a table breaks, the relative chip size of each stack is a factor in the various players' ultimate re-assignment to open seats at new tables ?

I saw that 5Dimes offers a "new" poker room, on the Equity Poker Network. Anyone know anything about this EPN ? (I knew the guy who runs it in passing, from when he ran Action Poker, but have no knowledge about this new network.)

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01-05-2014 , 10:48 PM

#8

gamboneee

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Quote:

Originally Posted by xalas

how is that cheating? don't all poker sites balance out in a similar way ?
The way i see it, it is saying

table one isn't fair to the player with only 1k in chips

pretty sure its supposed to be random. its just very rare that you'd get that exact draw out of all the permutations

but the time it happens, it shouldn't be changed

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01-05-2014 , 10:51 PM

#9

hans122

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Whes epn mean?

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01-05-2014 , 11:20 PM

#10

AMT

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gamboneee

pretty sure its supposed to be random. its just very rare that you'd get that exact draw out of all the permutations

but the time it happens, it shouldn't be changed

This is what I thought as well. If you see/experience table changes deep in games, it does seem pretty random on other sites. Even if it wasn't, doubt their support would tell you that they rig the seat assignments

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01-05-2014 , 11:24 PM

#11

xalas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by hans122

Whes epn mean?

Equity Poker Network

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01-05-2014 , 11:36 PM

#12

xalas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AMT

This is what I thought as well. If you see/experience table changes deep in games, it does seem pretty random on other sites. Even if it wasn't, doubt their support would tell you that they rig the seat assignments

You used the word rig
how is it an advantage/disadvantage to you the player be it you're a small, mid, or big stack at the table if they balance the tables using such a method as far as the poker site is concern they make theirs from the tournament fee and have no motivation to rig a game against a particular player.

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01-05-2014 , 11:41 PM

#13

William Murderface

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Quote:

Originally Posted by xalas

You used the word rig
how is it an advantage/disadvantage to you the player be it you're a small, mid, or big stack at the table if they balance the tables using such a method as far as the poker site is concern they make theirs from the tournament fee and have no motivation to rig a game against a particular player.

If it's safe to make the assumption that better players generally have bigger stacks, then balancing the tables using their method would mean you have a table with all sharks, and the other table is all fish.

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01-05-2014 , 11:46 PM

#14

xalas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by William Murderface

If it's safe to make the assumption that better players generally have bigger stacks, then balancing the tables using their method would mean you have a table with all sharks, and the other table is all fish.

It looks to me that is what they are trying to avoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by FixYourFace

This is the response I got from 5Dimes concerning how even table in tournaments.

The system automatically balances the tables and there is no discussion on how it does it. Again, due to the dynamics of the games and the server load the tables are evened up not only in players per table but also by chip stack. For example if out of the 12 players 5 have very high stacks and the remaining 7 players have smaller stacks the system will favor the stacks instead of the players per table. It wouldn't be fair to have 1 player sitting next to 5 others who have 5 or 10 times the chips he has."

that looks to me that they are mixing the tables so one table isn't overloaded with all big stacks or am I reading that wrong?

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01-05-2014 , 11:55 PM

#15

William Murderface

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Quote:

Originally Posted by xalas

It looks to me that is what they are trying to avoid

that looks to me that they are mixing the tables so one table isn't overloaded with all big stacks or am I reading that wrong?

Yeah, looks like I misread it the first time.

They shouldn't be trying to avoid anything, however. Let it play out as it does and keep it random. If table draw has 8 Phil Iveys going for the win vs 1 Allen Kessler going for a min cash, let them figure out how to adjust on their own.

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01-06-2014 , 12:00 AM

#16

xalas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by William Murderface

Yeah, looks like I misread it the first time.

They shouldn't be trying to avoid anything, however. Let it play out as it does and keep it random. If table draw has 8 Phil Iveys going for the win vs 1 Allen Kessler going for a min cash, let them figure out how to adjust on their own.

8 Phil Iveys would level each other Kessler would win and be the featured article on wikipedia.

but yeah, I do agree with you random seat assignments would be best.

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01-06-2014 , 12:49 AM

#17

herbertstemple

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Not really cheating
,
How do they gain here
?

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01-06-2014 , 03:55 AM

#18

Inigo Montoya

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FixYourFace

5Dimes Poker Site Cheating

This word - I do not think it means what you think it means.

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01-06-2014 , 04:20 AM

#19

raidalot

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Any system is "fair" as long as the basis is clear and is implemented consistently.

The implication of the comment in OP is that the player who is moved is the one with the most similar chip stack to the destination table so as not to be "unfair" to the player who moves. (I don't understand why they think it would be unfair or detrimental for him to move to a table with different stack sizes to his but w/e). But over the course of the tournament that would tend to lead to all the short stacks ending up at the same table and all the big stacks at the same table - not a desirable result.

Personally I don't think chip stack should be a factor. I've never seen it done elsewhere on any basis other than random and don't see any reason to change. Dealing with different stack sizes is just part of the skill in tournament play and part of what makes tourneys fun.

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01-06-2014 , 09:54 AM

#20

LolZombies

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Quote:

Originally Posted by William Murderface

If it's safe to make the assumption that better players generally have bigger stacks, then balancing the tables using their method would mean you have a table with all sharks, and the other table is all fish.

William Murderface you have the best Gif avatar!! Lol, love it sir

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01-06-2014 , 10:42 AM

#21

AMT

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Quote:

Originally Posted by xalas

You used the word rig
how is it an advantage/disadvantage to you the player be it you're a small, mid, or big stack at the table if they balance the tables using such a method as far as the poker site is concern they make theirs from the tournament fee and have no motivation to rig a game against a particular player.

It's a disadvantage to the player because they thought they were playing in a tournament where seating is randomized on re-assignment, but it isn't. The site is taking away various outcomes of seating assignments. A big stack should sometimes play with all tiny stacks, sometimes clash with several other big stacks, sometimes have a good healthy mix of stacks at their table, and everything in between. If a skilled big stack *never* theoretically has an opportunity to play with a particular favorable stack set up (all smaller/all medium stacks or whatever) then he loses money compared to a random set up.

All outcomes should be able to happen eventually, in order to make it as impartial as possible. Instead of doing that, the site gives off the perception that they do that (by not really advertising otherwise), but really they do not do that. That's pretty silly! I'm not saying that the site is deliberately singling out players to scam them, but it is still not a great thing. However you wish to apply the term....

On looking more closely though, 5dimes adopts the whole "protect the ecosystem" approach and has the "open waters" and "shark tank" rooms. It was not specified in OP, and not clear on their site as to how the tournaments work. Perhaps this tournament was run as a "open water" tournament, hence the set up is different than in the other room? Is that even how they do it? I really have no idea so can't really say past what has been mentioned here and the brief glance showing no clear indication of this rule in their poker room info. Perhaps there is a more logical explanation than the customer service rep. gave the OP. As it lies, it looks crummy. Would certainly agree that the term "cheating" in the OP is misplaced, though.

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01-06-2014 , 11:57 AM

#22

hans122

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who is cheating why?

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01-06-2014 , 06:43 PM

#23

William Murderface

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Originally Posted by LolZombies

William Murderface you have the best Gif avatar!! Lol, love it sir

TY sir

Been considering adding new ones to the mix for a long time now

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01-06-2014 , 07:11 PM

#24

ZeckoRiver

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[ ] op uncovers huge cheating scandal betonline is another site that has random seating in mtts were you can get put into big blind on table breaks hand after hand and sees nothing wrong with this.

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03-08-2014 , 03:00 AM

#25

THAKID

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How many ppl play on here
Any cash grinders ?

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