PocketDucks, have you watched the film Wall Street? If so, could you give us your opinion on the Amaya Q3 report that has just been published?

I read the synopsis for Wall Street one time, is that a qualification?

My report: if Amaya stock is actually at $16 right now you should buy all of it.

Edit: hmmm

No I've not watched it, but it sounds like a film about a corrupted business? I wouldn't say Amaya is even close to being corrupted, as it has always maintained a stable relationship with its customers. However with regards to this report, my view is that it indicates a promising future for the site and the players. The goals the company set for themselves are excellent, for instance the last and 3rd last bullet point on page 21 of the Q3 report. The promotions keep getting better and better each year, and by the sounds of what was said in the report, it sounds like they could be even better next year than they already are! It's also great news for casual players who will be encouraged to stay in the games for longer after the changes have been enforced, which of course is good for us too.

I also admire Amaya's ingenuity for coming up with the whole video concept, that's brilliant! I think it will attract a whole newmarket, some of whom will also be attracted to or "cross-sold" into poker. So despite the obvious pain high volume grinders will feel in the short term, I can only see these changes being beneficial not only to the site, but also to the poker ecosystem and the gaming industry as a whole.

Mmm
They just gotta pump more promotion into the spin n goes for sure.
If the lottery works, work it.

Yea exactly, the thing people don't realise about spin n goes is that they draw in new players to the site. And those new players won't all exclusively play spin n gos or casino games, they also can be cross-sold into poker. Which is definitely a good thing for both the site and the players, basically everybody benefits from it. So it is good news and brings promise for the future of the games, and especially with this new video game innovation.

Spin n goes are a pretty solid introduction into poker tbh.
It's one of those deals where if getting rich quick attracts you, you are going to love it.
If you decide you love the game, you are going to love it.
If you just like the entertainment value, you are going to love it.
Once you figure out that it's an actual lottery, and the monetary rewards are significantly better if you take the time to get good at larger tables/ect...you're still probably going to love it.

Hitting the jack pot is the entire point of a casino tbh, but when you figure out that you can feed your gambling addictions by playing it as a game of skill, everyone wins.

Mostly Amaya, but still everyone wins.

YES THERE IS if we coordinate our efforts.

For sure:
Step 1. dump millions of dollars into creating software, advertising, and creating a reputable brand.
2. Gather player base
3. ???
4. Profit

Bring down Amaya! We can do it if we all stick together, guys.


edit: sorry, i don't mean to troll, but SNE is not even a noticeable percentage of any population anywhere. Generating rake is all fantastic, but i'm pretty sure PokerStars has come to the conclusion that if they pay you less rake back, you really can't do anything about it except have to grind more to make up for your missing income.
Seems kind of reasonable, you had a good ride while they were generous, i don't even think it's that crazy of a cut tbh

If he watched it he would know that much of the trading language in the film (especially when they talk about options) needed some significant fact checking, as many times a lot of needed information was left out. Perhaps they covered that in an episode of "The Apprentice."

Regardless, the irony about today's stock drop is that it is certainly not based at all about the announced changes for the future, and if the price does go up in 2016 that will kind of show that these changes, at least from an investor perspective, were correct. That's kind of what public companies try to do.

This thread has pretty much lost any of its value, and to someone who reads it off and on it now feels like a couple people trolling SNEs, and the SNEs not quite getting how self serving their posts are when they speak about the good of the industry.

bump this, anyone?

I think spins could put noobs off, after they burn through their deposit in no time, and they will hate the variance as they don't understand it, nor can put the volume in to balance it out.

From what I read about, for the next year they are keeping SN rakeback at 28% and capping 30% over 200k VPPs.

You would have to look at the formula yourself though and decide if you are making more/less? For instance, the difference in their FPP/other reward system, how StarCoins is going to effect your income, ect.

Should read the article, pretty sure if you're grinding 100k VPPs and it's directly effecting your income you can crunch the numbers that are out there.

BIG +1 here and thanks for supporting me and my views about this subgroup of the community

It's an insider conspiracy I tell you...they can point to the low point that they purposely drove their stock prices down to, so that by 2017 when their stocks are at $80 a share they can all sail away on their yachts made of gold.

Much more like "The Wolf Of Wall Street" than "Wall Street" for sure.

So don't get me wrong, I'm all for smaller percentage rakes but I have a question. All these high rollers who are complaining about losing their perks and rake back, are they not also the ones who benefitted the most from Stars bailout of FTP? Stands to reason that those with the biggest stacks on Stars probably had some large amounts on FTP as well… Hmmm short memories for those who Stars essentially wrote a cheque for when they bailed out FTP...

Actually, I pretty much stopped reading your posts after your Apprentice comments, because I assumed you were either just here to troll intentionally or, if the Apprentice comment was genuine, too naive to take seriously.

I really do not know what your positions are, nor do I particularly care much. I appreciate the work SNEs put in, but I also have for years wondered why Stars was sticking with a volume based incentive program that often time caused some fairly unusual game conditions where a player needs to be going for SNE to play specific games (unless they just want to lose a ton of money).

As someone who organized a significant sized casino bonus whoring team in the days when that was possible, we knew that our activities were hardly beneficial to the long term health of that industry, and while I will not put SNE quite in that category, I do wonder at times if some ever stop to wonder if their contribution to the poker economy is as productive as they imagine.

If any of that is similar to your views that is by happenstance and in no way related to anything you have said.

I mean I guess I get your point?
I think you are for sure mistaken thinking that any "high roller" is on 2+2 forum or trying to lobby people to boycott stars.

I have sympathy for every SNE player because it is way, way more likely that these are the people that actually put the time in to figure out a way to turn high volume grinding into a living for themselves.

Now they feel like they are back to the drawing board, I just troll because I don't see it like that, honestly feel like people are reacting off the cuff when in the long run they will probably be more profitable anyways.

If 35% less rake back is going to send you into poverty....I dunno guess i would have more sympathy.

I was just trying to back you up here dude. I'm totally with you about this. I know I've posted a lot in this thread so it may be hard to filter through for the golden nuggets of information that I posted, but if you reread everything you'll find a lot of posts I made which correlate with what you have said. I posted at length about how whilst I appreciate the work ethic and what goes into SNE and understand them being upset with how this will hurt them, that it also leads to some of their arguments about the poker industry as a whole to be biased and self-serving (this is a similar view as the one you gave above).

So I think it's great that we've both demonstrated the ability to keep an open mind and look at the big picture rather be swayed by are own individual interests as many people come across as in this thread. If you want, we could become friends on skype and discuss this further, as we both share similar interests on the topic and people like you are few and far between on this site. Let me know, and I could send you a pm with my skype details.

i dont think you understand Monty.

When the Death Star fired its superlaser and destroyed Alderaan, it was just a proof of concept.

But don't worry. The Evil Empire can't possibly withstand an epic fightback from the 2+2 Rebels. The Empire has money, power and influence throughout the galaxy. The Rebels have an angry wookie, a bleeping dustbin and a tribe of ewoks organising a coordinated strike.
Pro-tip: Don't bet on the ewoks. They only win in fictional universes.

hey pokerstars.....listen....open your ears......

Care to explain?

I guess it's not surprising that a community of under 1,000 people can make people so upset about PokerStar's rake back changes, considering they generate up to 8% of the profits by themselves.

But is it really worth being upset about?

Maybe you think you should already be a PokerStar's millionaire...I can't fault you for that.

If you would have generated more than $70,000 worth of rake, I can definitely see the reason for being upset that in the next year you are only going to get $31,500 instead of $49,000.

But can we actually take a second to consider these numbers?

Is the top 2% of PokerStars actually going to try to lobby to boycott PokerStars?

Can anyone that has the chance of making a living from poker actually take these numbers seriously?

I'd just like to put forward that as a U.S. citizen that doesn't have the RIGHT or FREEDOM to even have the opportunity to grind for these numbers, that loves poker probably more than the average SNE machine that found the way to profit was to turn it into heartless numbers... that trying to boycott a Company that gave you the OPPORTUNITY and gave you the FREEDOM to do this has honestly been generous with you fellas up til now.

Trying to raise the arms to "strike against AMAYAAAAA!!!!" Is probably the silliest thing I can think of.

If you gave me the slightest scent of being able to take your place without abandoning my family, home, and country, i'd cut you open faster than Luke cut open that tauntaun in the Empire Strikes Back.

They let you play your "I can only profit if there's a rake back" game for how long?

And now that they are saying let's reduce it by 33% you're immediate response is that POKERSTARS!!!!!!! YOU RUINED POKER!!!!!

Well okay SNE players and future wanna-be SNE players, you can't grind $1000+ buyin tables for the rake back anymore. You can't come to an agreement that "they already got the max rake from this hand, let's not put anymore money in", you guys can't grind lower stakes players into your rake for rake back goals anymore.

Fair enough, maybe you guys could find a new way?

Maybe you could become profitable without having to rely on 70% rake back?

I mean, I personally know a large number of players in the U.S. that don't even have the option of a "rake back"...everything they play for goes directly to a Casino, and we don't even get the magnanimity of having a free roll tournament every sunday so 1 person atleast can get the rewards...

Just saying, you entitled Canadians, European, and rest of the poker market, maybe tone down the "OMFG POKERSTARS LESS RAKEBACK LETS STRIKEEEEEE" because I guarantee that the rest of the world that hasn't noticed Poker Online to this point will sure take notice when they realize exactly how much money you are mad that pokerstars won't give back to you.

OMG, YOU WON'T GIVE ME MY $11k DIFFERENCE IN RAKE BACK?


"Holy ****, this guy is mad because $11k is 33% less than what he normally makes????
Why are we not putting all of our time into this, Steve? I mean, $11k IS LITERALLY MORE THAN WHAT WE MAKE FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR, STEVE."

EDIT: HOLY **** STEVE, THEY'RE MAD BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE $11k LESS THAN WHAT WE MAKE FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR, STEVE.
Can you even believe that, STEVE? They are trying to boycott a site that let's them make so much money that they think killing poker is allowing them to profit less than what we make in an entire year, Steve. CAN YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT?

Car crash post above.

Couldn't stop reading despite how horrible it looked.

He was saying you're annoying and he doesn't give a **** what you think... you just happen to agree. Are you like 12 years old?