Cliff notes for each and every level please?

3600 hands, .135VPP/hand at 50nl FR.

I wish this were true.

ya at plo 50 im getting .37 not the .42 like party/fpp pro says.

here goes a long one. I did a lot of math before I posted this so here it goes.

Exactly. 400k more hands @ 100nl if you play fast tables


which means stars will make more money and I have to play about 268 more hours. would have been better if stars didn't change the vpp system. I love how they make it seem like earning vpp is faster although thats not the case at 50nl and 100nl.

The problem is not that it doesn't apply to the majority... The problem is that it doesn't apply to all pokerstars players. so basically when they say that "you will earn vpp's at a faster rate and climb the vip ladder quicker" is just a front. You gotta love how they sugar coat it by throwing a "reload bonus" and some new special "stellar rewards" and increase the "milestone bonuses" but really the vpp/hand lowers by like .03* for the 50nl and the 100nl player. The fact is that these players must play more hands.

* based on 40k hands of 24 fast tabling @100nl.
* based on 10k hands of 24 fast tabling @50nl.

no. back in december I got .28 by playing 100nl all fast tables. now I get .25

avg decline= 10ish%


about a 10% hit meaning it takes 400k more hands to get sne @ 100nl.

easier said than done if you can beat 200nl.

based on what I get by playing 24 fast tables @ 100nl, it decreased by .0304
so if you received .28vpp/hand last year its about .25

I get that too but when you actually look at your vpps in your cashier on stars and do some math you will see its much lower.. like 10% lower.

Now, apart from the 5.5/6x matter, everyone climbs the ladder at the same pace, rake wise. Sorry if it got worst for you because you run "too fast" earlier... sometimes a better system means that who was "too much rewarded" have to take a hit.

I am a 6max player, I still climb a bit slower than some other players (Full-Ring) and I am not complaining about it.


Just happens that there are no more "sweet spots" rewarded well above than others... it seems to me quite an improvement for the majority of the players (exception made for those who were on these "sweet spots", of course)!


So much complaining about the system, one that is one of the best around, on a site that takes less rake/fees than industry average in the first place. Sigh...

It is pretty obvious at this point that the VPP rates are varying widly. I'm guessing there is a big difference in the rates between the 50BB and 20BB tables. If we want true rates we will probably need to seperate them and get much larger sample sizes (which will understandably take some time).

Yes. Also depends on the time of day and also if and how you table select. Also obvious.

what have people got for 200nl FR? that 0.45 number posted in the list isn't possible imo

table select while 24 tabling? unpossible!

Yeah, I am confused as well - I played 1,666 hands yesterday and had probably around 950 VPPs in that time (not at home so I can't get the exact number). But the number is waaaay above the .45 number and your .6 number seems to agree.

Yeah this is true... for about 15% of people who got SNE.

Yeah, my average of 0.264 at 100 NL FR is only 50BB tables. Pretty sure 20BB tables see a small boost.

Time of day-wise, I haven't seen much more then a 0.01 change from morning/afternoon/evening. Seems pretty stable. So, 3.78 mil hands at 100NL to make SNE. Methinks I'll be spending a bit of time at 200NL and 400NL this year.

^^

yeah, what I'm gonna do is spend about 8 mos at 100nl and 3 mos at 200nl, 300k hands/month. And hopefully be finished by dec. 1 :-)

You are pretty much exactly where I am, In the past I was more .10-.12 but now its been .07-.09 for 25NL FR

.246 VPP/hand at $100NL FR sample of 23,706hands

All PLO:

5/10 6max: 6,816 hands, 8,850.33 VPPs = 1.30/hand

3/6 6max: 3,237 hands, 3,976.89 VPPs = 1.23/hand

2/4 6max: 11,847 hands, 12,464.27 VPPs = 1.05/hand

1/2 6max: 8,293 hands, 6,537.41 VPPs = 0.79/hand

5919 hands, .23 @ 50NL FR /lots of shorthanded and HU involved

filtered for 7-9 players: 3380 hands, .205 vpp/hand 50NL FR

.138VPP/hand at 50nl after 11k hands. not looking good.

I actually think this is not correct. In fact, those folks that demand to only play 50bb tables AND are fpp pros may in fact be screwing themselves.

My thinking and observations of late:

Load up a table of vpp/fpp pros at 50bb tables and watch how nitty it gets. With the exception of certain premium hours of the day/nite I see far more sub 18 table vpip at 50bb tables than I do at 20bb tables. Everyone nits it up, C/O or btn raises, blinds fold. C/O or btn raises, BB 3 bets, fold-no flop no drop.

At 20bb tables you got the terribad min raising shorties along with the bad fpp pros that min raise those tables vs shorties because they want to save a dorra when the shorty ships. But you get flops. Flops = rake = vpp. As well, most people have no clue how to play vs a shorty. Most shorties have no clue how to play post flop w/o shipping. And further they give money away when they don't ship post flop.

Yet you still see plenty of action on the 20bb tables and maybe at times slightly bloated action given the hands when a shorty ships with 55, which they do often. Bloated because if the hand was played post flop the pot would stop at $9-$16 bucks, rather than $60-80.

So yea basically I'm saying to all that want to fpp pro with epeen at 50bb tables, you're probably doing yourself a disservice and forcing yourself to play 10-20% more hands for the same RB.

It seems not better than last year. Can someone confirm this year and last year VPP/h at 3/6 6max? ty

Is better or worse than last year?

If I were a 6max player and my rakeback was slighty lower just because I played 6max and not fullring then I would be disappointed in stars and email them daily to get it to be fair for everyone. I won't be one of those guys that say " well since they already do soo much for me so ill ignore this and look at what they already do". They can always improve imo.

Maybe its just me but wouldn't it have been better for stars to do some math before making the changes and make sure that the changes doesn't lower any particular level ( 50nl/100nl/ 200nl?). Like for example if they are going to increase vpp for 6max then do that but don't decrease the vpp for full ring players in the process.

There didn't suppose to be any sweet spots to begin with. All they had to do was incrase the levels/games where people weren't getting their fair share without decreasing other levels/games.

maybe they do take less fees but clearing vip bonuses are lame. there should be a rule that if you are supernova+ then you dont have to clear them.

thats about what im getting over 40k hands

exactly!!! and this is the main reason why I play fast tables only . 50bb min tables and super nitty! only go there if you are a good laggy type of player.
I found it funny how a lot of regs like playing deep stack poker to avoid ssers only to find out that its really nitty stack poker. play 50bb min tables and you will see some set under set hands within your 1k hand session... god forbid I talk about folding sets postflop...

That seems wayy lower than what I and others who posted in this thread are getting.

I have other concerns than just simply the rewards (or RB%, whatever). I care about a healthy poker room, balanced games, etc.

I dont ask just for sake of asking, just to get more because sometimes more in the short-term means less on the long-run. Basically its the same kind of reason why I make other decisions as not to change to a game/format or stake where I would get higher rewards. Only difference is that in some I have no direct control, in others I do. I try to think globally and not locally and in a personal way type of view...

In fact, I am much more concerned with the high rake taken at the tables in some game formats than with rewards discrepances. I posted several posts about that matter here at 2p2.


Well, its pretty clear to me that this would mean no more PS on the long-run. Or at least, the PS that we know and stands above the rest in security, customer support, etc, etc, etc.