Pfft. I intended no offence to you mods. It's just that this thread (which has potential to scare recs away from online poker) got derailed to the point that we appear to know less than we did at the outset.

Perhaps OP is studiously ignoring all the suggestions that he make sure any security breach isn't local to him. But it's impossible to tell when he's busy defending his honour.

At least the site rep has now promised a decent update.

No offence taken.

Let's hope all will be revealed in a day or so.

You've, and many others, have gone on and on like this. What more do you want to hear about the story to make it whole? What facts are you unclear about?

I think it's very odd to be skeptical, and at the same time, show absolutely no interest in wanting to know more about anything in particular.

Let me phrase this question in a, hopefully, neutral way: What specific items of information should people wait for before they come to an opinion?

I am looking forward to Phil's post as well. Hopefully, he will also entertain my call first which seems relevant given the circumstances.

I want to clarify a few things:

1) Because I didn't post or answer every absurd request doesn't mean I ignored them or the advice. Yes, my computer has been reviewed. They were 2 strange files on their but no sign that there was any virus, Trojan, etc. my computer also has mcafee anti-virus, etc. I did change the password to my accounts several days back.

2) I do give permission for phil or the wpn rep to post any correspondence or voice conversations which were recorded. You will see that every element of the timeline, IP address discussions, balance discussions, security discussions were 100% as described. I do need to clarify one important point after re-reading my own post. It pertains to the Marriott question.

3) I shouldhave said that I normally play from home...not always. The lone exception I can think of off hand is on Sunday's (twice). So, I want to explain why the Marriott ip is there and correct. My wife is an elite memebers witha bazillions points and, on the rare occasions I get to play a full slate on Sunday, I go to a local hotel b/c I don't play around my kids. So, 2 of those Sunday's I play there. It changes nothing but before I said my post is 100% correct,I felt the need to correct that. FYI, whoever claimed the ip in question on the 16/17 is also Marriott, I would venture to guess is wrong. Not sure where you got that info.

4) The forum missed a significant point when I posted Adriana's email. That email clearly said the IP in question matches where I usually play from. Look at the ip screenshot. The IP from the 16/17th has ever been accessed nor used since. Therefore, saying the IP address matched was a lie. That is obvious. Why would they tell me that is a different matter.

5) Several of you said that I accused the site of stealing money or that "it vanished". That was never the case. Reread my post. My absolute #1 goal was for them to spend the time to investigate and not just dismiss me like they had. Given that I was lied to(documented), given incorrect balance 18 hours later (documented), and comments from the security mgr (please post the audio) one of my many theories was chip dumping. You can understNd my concern. It def was not the only. Again, securitymanger asked me and I told him several possibilities.

Again, reread my post, I offer WPN to challenge any of my statements about how this was handled. Like the restof you, whether it was chip dumping, a hacker, a crazy uncle (no I don't have one) or some other explanation time will tell.

Well chip dumping is out 100% out per reps post

So that leaves a few possibilities

I miss the days I used to have a bazillion points.. So much more relaxing

Curiosity is killing me
First time in awhile we have a good ole mystery

Bets on what happened?

I think OP was pretty clear and then restated what he thought later. He always believed a third party logged into his account and lost his money. After he found out the site confirmed his balance of around $10k 15 hours AFTER the money was gone and ACR told him there were no suspicious IP's logging in when there clearly were and that they also concluded, after their 2 minute investigation there was no evidence of chip dumping after telling him they play were the money was lost was very poor, as well as some other things that were off in what they were saying he thought to himself "Why are they saying all these things that are clearly not true? Could they be in on it?"

These comments aren't helping ACR's image here. You shouldn't be confirming anything until after completing a thorough investigation. Otherwise it looks like your investigation is directed at confirming your conclusions instead of aimed at trying to figure out what happened to OP's money.

You guys are coming across some of those crazy restaurant owners on yelp that instead of listening to complaints with an open mind.

When one of your customers reports a substantial amount of money is missing.. what type of online poker room do you want to be?

1. One that does little to help their customer and just spends time trying to confirm the site has no liability.
2. One that even though doesn't have liability for the lost funds, uses the mechanisms and expertise in fraud detection/prevention can assist their customer to find out what happened to their money and provide information useful in recovering it like information that may lead to the identity of the person logging into the account.
3. Same as 2 but also tries to recover funds from where the money went to if it can reasonably be confirmed that there was chip dumping or joyr riding.
4. One that says screw our ToS, here's your money, we'll figure things out on our end.

So far it looks like you're ok with being 1. IMO, as an unregulated site you should at least be 2, preferably 3 since your customers probably have little other recourse. Cop says: "So you had some money on an offshore site that's operating illegally in this jurisdiction, someone hacked into your account and stole your money and now you want me to find out what happened? lol"

As crazy as some people may think it would be to be 4, that's how some of the best and biggest companies operate. They assume the liability, now that the money stolen is theirs they have more incentive to try and recover it. The cost of recovery (and cost when there can't be recovery) as well as the cost that helps minimize these occurrences in the first place is account for ahead of time.

Sounds like an accusation to me.

I have heard if you are in a hotel and you are on their wifi. All the hacker got to do is hook a box up to the network and steal your id and password. I watched a video on you tube about this.
This is also why WPN might say it was from a normal ip. I really don't see why you blaming ACR.

eh, yea this is a pretty big detail that was not in any of your posts until now. Marriot(t) was never mentioned by you and Microroller came up with it (quote below). So the fact that you do sometimes play from a Marriott and your account was accessed from a Marriott IP when you say it was compromised is pretty huge

I would guess that WPN has a lot more techincal data than just your IP address. If they use Maxmind or something similar then it would also say who the ISP/owner of the IP is, it may appear to them as "Marriott". If it does then them saying that your login details matched previous ones is not far wrong imo.

Four is probably unrealistic though

Could I put a request in that the findings be posted in a new formal thread

Also could after this is resolved the suspicion of Russian bots in husngs issue be investigated more thoroughly and an official statement on that matter be released

companies = online poker sites in your case? if so then what site(s) would reimburse a normal player $10K like this?

2 points to clarify from recent posts:

1) I was not told it was a "normal IP." Big difference. I was told it was an IP I previously used. That is simply not true. FYI, I played from the same property in Austin both times, fwiw.

2) theIP on the 16/17 in question is notfrom Mariott. There is nothing that supports that. I posted it as a company in Iowa. Nowhere does it show as a Marriott....at least that I have seen.

Sure.

I'll take: He went to 25/50 PLO to hit and run for a few hundred dollars and lost it all. Then tried saying he wasn't the one playing to get it back like an idiot.

Oh **** me.

If it wasn't you that donked off the money while there one night you should contact ATT to confirm who currently owns the IP address in question. Poker players, hotels and hacking have a history so I'm still not ruling that out but this changes things if Marriot does indeed own that address.

fwiw, IPs get switched locations all the time, but 12.12.139.66 is currently from Austin, Texas

http://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/12.12.139.66

"ISP: AT&T Services
Organization: Marriott International"

http://www.ip-address.org/lookup/ip-...k=12.12.139.66

"ISP: AT&T Services
Organization: Marriott International"

http://www.ip-tracker.org/locator/ip...p=12.12.139.66

"ISP: AT&T Services
Organization: Marriott International"

Some of the sites that you look up IP addresses on will show older information, this is due to caches/DNS lagging/other technical data im not 100% on


----

IP he played on that sunday, not the compromised IP

I like how you forgot that small detail about you playing from the hotel on Sunday.



Marriott property in Dallas.


It happens to everyone OP.
Hookers n blow
lose money
Wife starts asking questions and now you have to keep up this charade

me 2

themrc:

Why is it that if you make a correction days after you make a wrong statement, it is simply a correction? But when WPN makes a correction immediately after making a mistake, they are liars?

Companies in general. Some examples... Credit card companies take responsibility for fraudulent activity. They either eat the cost or track down what happened to recover funds.

Retailers too like Home Depot and Amazon. You can pretty much return anything you want to Home Depot for any reason without much of a hassle. Return rates are still pretty small so eating the cost isn't a big deal and can be factored in but in most cases they have relationships with suppliers and the suppliers (manufacturers) eat the cost. This also has the benefit of giving manufacturers incentive not to produce crap that will get returned. Some people will abuse that but most won't and there are ways to deal with it.

Rather then punishing everyone for the actions of a small few, customer experience is enhanced and people are more confident doing business with the company. I know I personal buy stuff from companies like this knowing if there's any problem I can return the items. Even though I rarely do and have just thrown things in the trash that I could have returned.

pmarr, you listed the same ip 3 times. We already know that is Marriott in Austin. Thanks for confirming.

I'm praying that you're joking.

WPN has billions of USD. The pockets are DEEP. That's something I'm 100% not speculating on, I know it for a fact.

When I pointed out the absence of your IP address on the 14th you replied with:


How do you forget about playing poker in a hotel less than a week ago?

So if a company's operators have X amount of money that makes their company worth X? Never knew that before, ty for the info.

It's similar to DNS but not exactly and not reliable. ARIN manages the IP addresses for the Americas. They assign and track who gets what IP addresses.

It usually works like this. ARIN assigns netbocks (IP address ranges) to some companies directly. Usually ISPs like ATT but not always. The information for direct allocations is normally accurate but there's no technical reason to have that information updated. It's not like DNS where you need to do a look up to find a computer. It's more for information to be able to help track things down like where suspicious activity is coming from.

The companies that ARIN allocates IP addresses to directly can then allocate portions of their netblock to their customers. Like ATT assigning parts of their IP address range to Marriot. It's up to ATT to make sure that the ARIN database is updated but again, this isn't that critical and many times the information is way out of date.

Information from the ARIN databases is one of the sources for IP Geolocation so when this data is out of date then so can the geolocation if there are no other sources of data for that IP address.

Yup, a small detail that had the opposite stated in your OP.

As Banned4lyfe has posted, the geolocation for the compromise IP address (12.1.182.22) is a SpringHill Suites by Marriott® property in Dallas Texas:

http://www.ip-tracker.org/locator/ip...ip=12.1.182.22

City Lat/Lon: (32.7831) / (-96.8067)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/32°46'59.2"N+96°48'24.1"W/@32.7829618,-96.8062867,17z



This is far more than coincidental