Let me suggest you just consider this. I'm certainly not going to suggest that the information you gain from seeing players hands at showdown is completely valueless. But many people here treat every morsel of information as though each are hugely valuable.

But the marginal value of any one hand is not particularly high. If you were to insta-flip your cards as the caller when you had the NUTS how much informastion would you really be giving up. How many times in a session do you end up calling the river with the NUTS or checking in position with the NUTS? (remember this is generally only going to happen when your opponent is all in, or maybe if you call a bet rather than raise because you think you may get some additional callers behind you). So its a rather limited amount of times and this is true even if we open it up to times you have less than the nuts --- but its practically the nuts. Of all the hands your opponent is going to show you what percentage is it that we are talking about?

Now if you were to flip these hands up right away you would be giving up a small amount of information, but you would be speeding up the game (and thus maybe getting more use out of the information you already have) and you wouldn't be pissing of the guy you just felted and maybe he would buy back in and lose some more to you. What value is that information if your fish get annoyed and quit playing?

If I have the nuts I'm much more likely to instantly table them against most people. That's different than when I call with A high and the person says "you're good."

How most players are unwilling to get out of their comfort zones and try a game variant other than NL Texas Hold'em.

When one player shows another player their cards after a hand is over before throwing it away, and the dealer can definitely see, but doesn't flip them over for the rest of the table to see.

If I really want to see I'll ask, but I shouldn't have to, and no one wants to be "that guy"

People that cheer and clap or yell boom or some bull****. Stfu and act like you done this before

Taking to much space at the table. The 2seats feet shouldn't be reaching over to the 4 seat. I always get the guy who needs a quarter of the table to feel comfortable

Had one last night. A friendly OMC was on my right, he was doing OK.

Anyway I look over about 3 hours in and he's hiding his stack of 10x$25 chips behind a triangle of 20x$5 chips. I have to say something so I try to be as friendly as possible;

Me: "Aww mate, you can't do that! "
OMC: "Do what?"
Me: "You've got your 25's behind your 5's, people can't see those. You need to bring 'em out where people can see"
Dealer: "Bring 'em out, mate"
OMC: (To me) "This isn't a tournament, mate...."

NO! IT'S REAL LIFE, BRAH! YEEEEEEAH!

He knew exactly what he was doing too as he's a reg.

Psandman although you worded that whole thing a bit oddly, I understand your point and have given thought to it. Against one particular person who continously fires huuggge bluffs at me and says "oh you're good", I've been more lenient on making him show because it's so often air that I don't really care what he has and there's more value in not embarrassing him.

However, there was one spot where he called me on a KQTcc flop and the board ran out two more clubs after it goes check/check on the turn. I hero call the river and he says "yeah just one pair, you're good". This time I made him show because it was important to see if he was just floating me or was turning a made hand into a bluff, a piece of information that's worth a lot.

I'll also call him (and other people, depending on who) down with Ace high or like 4th pair, and it's not so much needing to see their hand, but I don't want to show everybody how light I'm willing to call down if I don't have to.

But you see my point .... the position that some people take on this .... that they absolutely will never show their cards first if they don't have to .... is excessive. Most of us don't mind a player who picks his spots to insist on getting information its the guys who make a religion out of it that bugs us.

My only religion here is lets move the #$%^ on to the next hand. I don't care who's right or wrong about showdown order. Winning players should want more hands per hour, which (imo) is worth WAY more than information about any one particular hand.

BTW psandman - not arguing with you. Totally agree. I liked your choice of words with religion and riffed on that.

A player goes all in for 150BB gets called and some douche says "good luck all-in"

What is douchey about wishing someone good luck??

LOL yes

It's just an empty gesture; they don't actually want the guy to win, so why are they saying good luck? (I mean the guy who was called).

It's like you drowning and me saying "I'll pray for you".

He didn't say it was said by the other player in the pot, and I have never heard it said by such a person, just by other players at the table.

My bad. But regardless, it happens a lot to me; Guy calls an all in, and the guy who was all in says "good luck" and taps the table.

That's just flat out wrong. The extra 10 seconds it takes me to get them to show (which turns into 0 after the first couple times once they realize I'm going to make them show) is infinitely more valuable over time building mental HH's against V's, rather then playing 1-2 more hands over the course of a day.

A lot of my decisions in poker against players are caused from me replaying previous hands I've played against Villians, and seeing their wholecards helps tremendously to solidify the entirety of the hand and how they play (are they barelling anything, or just when they pick up equity -- what did they call me with preflop that wants to bet here, etc etc etc)

I know of a lot of people, some who I consider friends in the poker room, who share the same sentiment you do. All I can say is I think you're inhibiting your ability to get better.

You play limit.

The saying comes from the time when limit was king.

If you're playing limit and you're going all in, chances are you've lost a whole lot that session via bad play and people are wishing you good luck as a gesture of goodwill and perhaps a sincere hope that some chips will come back to you so that they have a shot at them.

The saying somehow carried over to NLHE where it makes much less sense.

Yeah, I do mostly play limit, but I do play some NL. Actually have almost never heard anyone saying it in a NL game though, and when I have, it hasn't been said by someone else in the pot, and I never thought it sounded insincere or douchey.

You see people saying "Good Luck All In" a lot in tournaments. I'm actually confounded that people think it doesn't make sense??? I mean, I don't ever say it but tons of people do. (generally not people in the hand)

I have a bunch of little pet peeves rather than one big one.

• People who call any game that isn't hold'em a "mixed game."
• People who don't know how to count the pot, read the board, etc., trying to chime in when the dealer needs a moment to concentrate.
• Neighbors who are constantly edging into my table space.
• People who are disrespectful to dealers and/or other staff.
• The 1 seat and the 9/10 seat. Give the dealer some arm space, FFS. (I used to hate the 5 seat too, but then my eyes got older.)

What is the proper procedure for this? Assuming the player shown the hand is also not in the hand. When should the dealer expose the hand? Show it immediately? Show at the end of the round before the next card comes out. Wait to the end of the hand?

If the player shown is still in the hand and it's a multiway pot, it should 100% be shown right away. If he is not in the hand, I'm fine with dealer just mucking it unless anyone else asks to see it, in which case it should be set aside and shown to the table when the hand is complete.

(emphasis added)

Since he is talking about after a hand is over discussion of whether the player shown is still in the hand makes no sense.

Everywhere I have been the cards would only be shown if another player asks to see them. However it seems to me based on comments I have seen online and sometimes by the reactions of players at my tables that there may be some places where these cards are automatically shown to the table.