Yet Another Straightforward "Ruling? Can We Raise?" Thread - Page 2 - Poker Card Room

Two Plus Two Forums Live Poker Casino & Cardroom Poker

Yet Another Straightforward "Ruling? Can We Raise?" Thread

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 2 of 2

1 2

Page 2 of 2

1 2

02-03-2017 , 07:28 AM

#26

psandman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

Not realizing your opponent has bet is not an excuse for gross misunderstanding. I am open to arguments against this, but I don't like the idea that we can give someone a chance to call and then change it to a raise/fold just by verbally announcing an amount slightly higher than the bet they are facing. Once you announce an amount, that is treated exactly the same as if you silently put that much in the pot and handled accordingly.

The gross misunderstanding rule says nothiing about needing a valid excuse. And if not knowing your opponent had bet is not an excuse for the Gross Misunderstanding rule why would it be an excuse for that rule when you don't know how much he bet?

Personally I don;t think this example is a GROSS misunderstanding but that would be a subjective judgment

Quote

02-03-2017 , 11:09 AM

#27

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 20,451

Is there another way to have a gross misunderstanding other than not paying attention?

Quote

02-03-2017 , 11:37 AM

#28

madlex

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by albedoa

I'm surprised by the responses here, but I don't care much either way. I don't see a problem with letting him raise.

I am on the same page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuppa

Obviously not. $65 would be a legal raise then.

What if his stack is $64 or $66?

Quote

02-03-2017 , 01:13 PM

#29

psandman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

Is there another way to have a gross misunderstanding other than not paying attention?

Sure... a player next to the dealer might whisper his action. The dealer misstatements the action and the next player calls based on that misstatement.

Quote

02-03-2017 , 01:39 PM

#30

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

I never said it did. I only stated why I would not call this a GM. As for your question, the rule specifically states it is for when you were mistaken about the amount of the bet. I get the argument that he was mistaken about the amount because he thought it was $0 when it was actually $50, but I'm not going there.

Quote

02-03-2017 , 01:43 PM

#31

psujohn

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,173

So the gross misunderstanding rule says:

Quote:

Because the amount of a wager at big-bet poker has such a wide range, a player who has taken action based on a gross misunderstanding of the amount wagered needs some protection. A bettor should not show down a hand until the amount put into the pot for a call seems reasonably correct, or it is obvious that the caller understands the amount wagered. The decision-maker is allowed considerable discretion in ruling on this type of situation. A possible rule-of-thumb is to disallow any claim of not understanding the amount wagered if the caller has put eighty percent or more of that amount into the pot.

I take it to mean that gross misunderstanding has to do with the size of the bet and not the fact of the bet though I suppose we could easily say that B thought the initial bet was 15 and therefore his raise to 65 would be perfectly legal and since he misunderstood the size of the bet he can now adjust (but I'd say in that case B is actually obliged to at least a min raise).

I kind of read the OP as saying that B didn't realize that UTG had bet and therefor I wouldn't immediately go to gross misunderstanding of the size of the bet (B can't misunderstand the size of a bet if he doesn't know the bet is there to begin with).

Honestly what I wish would happen in this case is that the dealer tells B - UTG bet $50 what do you want to do - and then if B says he wants to raise and we get the size of that raise we then turn to UTG and say - Since he initially put out a call we can rule his action as just a call instead if you prefer.

I love rulings that punish the guy who broke a rule or wasn't paying attention to the benefit of the other player(s) in the hand whenever it's possible.