This really is 100% true. I mean, how many times can someone post the same exact thing. The tipping model isn't something you're a fan of, but you tip anyway, we got it. Please, for the love of God, move on. 97% of people outside of this site have no problem with tipping at all and do it pretty generously.

Then why, might I ask, are you still posting in this thread?

Is there a point you feel you haven't made yet?

I just back-buttoned a long reply (on my phone). Go me and ytf don't I have an undo button!!

I was just trying to say that you're a little negative towards tipping. I'm not calling you cheap. I'm saying that from my pov, you seem to be encouraging people to tip less.

That's fine.

I don't think you'll see anything I've written where I suggest people tip less.

At most, I think I've suggested that dealers (overall) have it pretty good, and would likely do better by letting sleeping dogs lie, and not trying to call out people as "stiffs" and "deadbeats."

I do, however, think that people should be aware of what's going on around them. Peel a few layers off the onion, as it were.

I accept that the rate for a poker table is ±120/hr plus dealer tips, and yet I still go play when free time and liferoll permits. Everyone in this thread knows I'd just happily pay $7/half time instead of $6+tips.

...but like I said, I mostly just like the klickity-klak of my keyboard.

Like you said, that's fine. I don't think I'm misinterpreting what you've written at all. I pretty sure I nailed it (or at least set the nail). But that's just my opinion. And I believe 2OutsNoProb agreed.

Maybe it's the clickety clack. That clack is addictive.


** I'll drop it completely. No biggie. Just 2 different opinions really.

<---OP

i think i said before that this dealer was one of the good ones. he generally keeps his head down and doesn't talk much. i certainly wouldn't call him distracted.

both the 7 seat and the 8 seat threw their cards down at the same time and in almost the same place just inside the betting line. since i was in the 9 seat, i saw the card while they were still in seat 8's hand. he had KJhh, which made it fairly easy to deduce that seat 7 had A8o.

I've posted here a lot, but haven't posted as much as you have, and I feel like I've covered a wider range of stances than to basically say "I don't like the tipping custom, it's terrible, but I'm forced into it and thus do it anyway so don't say I'm cheap" any number of different ways. I feel I could respond on either side of the fence to anyone who posted, whereas it seems obvious that every one of your responses is just reminder to everyone that you dislike the tipping model in this country. You obviously want people to tip less or to tip in some form of a rewarding fashion instead of just a standard one, insteadof just letting them do what they want with their money.

I have, perhaps, been more redundant than usual in the last couple hundred post in this thread*.

I guess I feel a lot like the Cecil Adams, minus the awesome reference librarian skills: "Fighting ignorance since 1973. It's taking longer than we thought."

[*The last hundred, not my last hundred, thank you...]

This is a good economic point. Look at the stripper model. At many places, the strippers have to "tap in" and pay a fee just to work there. What's up with that and why on earth would they do that? Well - because they can still make $200 + (and way plus in most cases). Imagine if every player tipped $20 on a $100 pot everytime... The applications to be a dealer would be pretty insanely long. What would the casinos do? Cut pay to zero or even make you as a dealer "tap in" - and you would still do it because your making $1000 a day (again if every player tipped $20 or $30 on a $100 pot or some other ridiculousness).

The economic impact would be - far more card rooms as they are then more profitable for the casinos. (i.e. zero wages plus dealers pay the casino, plus drop wow).

There is a demand and equilibrium curve for this market. It's where it's at because there is a certain level of "tips" that generally comes into the market. There is a certain level of people who tip X and a certain level that tip Y. There is a certain level of entertainment value that a customer expects. Players may think they tip too much, dealers think they don't get enough tips, and the house thinks the rake is too low. One big happy family.

The interesting point of all this is that the entire environment is controlled by tada... the customer. If the customer no longer sees value they will play less, or tip less (less players tipping the standard = less tips), and rake will be less. This would be until a new equilibrium is established.

The call economics the "dismal" science because in the long run, in perfect competition, we'll all just break even just enough to not have any other options look better... ha ha pretty bleak.

In an expanding market, where card rooms are profitable, where dealers total wages are good, where player demand is not being met - this is a good thing (except for player) - but only in the short run. As there is profit opportunity, new rooms open until there is no longer an economic profit. Sure in the micro, good card rooms will do better than bad card rooms etc. - I'm talking a little more macro.


The real danger is when this player demand is met and the market stops growing. I think this is the situation now. The TV Internet boom lead to higher player demand. This was good for dealers but most notably card rooms. Real life example - the Venetian used to have the card room at the noodle Asia spot near the sports book. This was pre TV poker and MoneyMaker etc... They took it out. Didn't make enough. Then a few years later with the boom in full effect - they built - what I think is one of the best card rooms in Vegas.

Now we are seeing player declines - call it economy - call it less casual players - whatever the case may be... and we'll see the downside. At first this will be good for the players as rakes are slashed to attract business and with an excess of dealers, there will be more willing to work for less. But then the players will find it hard to find a place to play, get free drinks, get "poker room" rates, and on and on. Until we once again reach a new lower equilibrium.

So to summarize all this tl;dr

Three constituents

1) Player - wants to pay zero rake, wants to tip zero - but - is very ambivalent about this and is probably the most elastic of the three groups. Most players play for entertainment and do not put great thought into "rake" and "tips". They generally don't go home and say "did I tip to much/little?". They say "did I have a good time?" - probably not that price sensitive - but there are limits. Of the three constituents, the players are in the cat bird seat (as a group). No players no game. More players, more industry. They are also the least likely group to understand that position or care (again - as a group)

2) House - Looks only at the bottom line. The bottom line however takes into account more than just $/sq ft. Hotel room vacancies - little Mrs. poker player donking off in slots etc.. They have control over wages, rakes, floor space, expenses etc. - but still, ultimately at the mercy of the customer.

3) Dealers - the bottom of this food chain. Although they derive economic impact - they are in NO position to change any of the variables. The only decision a dealer has is -should I deal cards for a living or not. No ability to change rake structure/mgmt/player habits/overall player pool size etc.

Group 1 - players can choose to be an active poker player or not. Just by walking in and out of the door. Very flexible.

Group 2 - Houses can decide to spread cards or not (ie slots etc) - moderately flexible.

Group 3 - Worst position. Yes they can "choose" to not deal and uproot their entire life. They are in little control of the macro influences.

So for me - I tip my dealers well. They are most likely to appreciate it and rely on it. The have the least options of the three groups.

They actually have the most options imo - other casinos to work at, other jobs they could take and the freedom to do other things.

Casinos and players are stuck in the system. They have the fewest options

Great post btw.

Excellent post, I like that the stripper tipping model made an appearance

Do you guys tip if you just make the money in a tournament? I'm curious as i never played a tourney before. Say a tourney is a 100+25 tourney and you just make the money and win $200 but you only profit $75. I assume for daily tournaments that the only people who tip are those who place top


Say you play a tournament that is 100 + 25 buyin and finish 2nd for 1500. Or if you finish 1st place for 2800. So the preferred tip is 2 percent? Thus 30 dollars from player who finished 2nd and 56 dollars for 1st place? I read someone said 3 percent is the max someone should pay. But when they mention 3 percent, are they multiplying the 3 percent by the prize or the prize - buyin to get that amount?

Tipping in MTT's depends a lot on if they are taking a % out of the prize pool or not, in addition to the rake. In most cases they are, therefor, you don't need to tip if you min-cash or cash at all for that matter. However, tipping extra in the top 3 is a player preference.

Playing at a Poker-tek e-table room (approx 12 tables). Large prize pool tourney. Obv no dealers. Tip? And who do you tip? Same goes for a BBJ too I guess.

Send the money to Poker Tec's programmers.

Haha yeah, not sure who you would tip unless there are exceptionally attentive floormen / tournament directors who are insuring the integrity of the game and keeping the tables balanced efficiently. If that's the case and I won the tournament, I might be inclined to leave a small amount as a token of my gratitude in addition to some kind words to those floormen's boss about their good work.

I just played came back from playing poker in Macau where literally NO ONE tips, so I didn't either. I vaguely heard from someone that dealers wouldn't even see the money if you tipped them and it would go straight to the corporate coffers. Other than 10% auto gratuities in places like hotel restaurants, tipping in general doesn't seem to be expected in the service industry in Asia, or at least not to the same extent as the United States.

out of curiosity whats the rake in macau

5% up to 200hkd (about $26 usd) for the bigger games at the Wynn

Hey guys. I'm curious but is it standard to not tip if you win a hand preflop with no callers? I always tip every hand even when i win pots uncontested... even if all i win is $3. What happens if you say play 1/2NL and then say 3-4 hands in a row you raise and everyone folds and you win $3 each time? Normally i always tip $1 and i think last time i did this as well but when i started getting no callers preflop, i then stopped tipping when no one even give me action b/c it was a nitty table.

Does it differ if say you get 3 limpers and then you raise to 15 or 20 and they all fold? Because in those type of situations, i always tip $1 even if there was no flop. Is this a bad idea? Also, would this differ in 2/5NL? I mean, imagine i raised like 4-5 pots in a row and say 4 pots straight, no one called my $25 or $30 preflop bet. Though, that isn't realistic... lets just say im a very tight player in this example and players see me raise 4 hands in a row but they know im tight. To me, it would look very bad winning like 3-4 uncontested pots preflop and winning $7 x 3= $21 and then not even tipping $1. Or is this completely standard?

A lot of people say they always tip $1 if there is a flop and $0 if no flop. And maybe $2 or $3 if pot is big. Do you dealers get bothered if a player doesn't tip you if they keep winning hands uncontested preflop? Does it differ if playing 2/5NL, and then get 2 limpers but they fold to a big raise pf? Because each time that happens, a player would win $17 and even though there is no flop, that looks very cheap.

Thoughts?

Standard for a lot of players. If I take down a single small pot I won't tip, but if I win a few small pots in succession I'll tip after the second or third. Just tip whatever you're comfortable with.

This is also why players should not blindly cap their tips at $1, because on a tight table your dealer may be putting out 4 or 5 hands to get to that one pot where they finally get tipped.

q/q

Agreed. I should note that I play small stakes LHE so this is rarely an issue, but I would certainly adjust if I felt the dealer wasn't being compensated fairly.

I usually tip after winning a pot, but if a dealer never says thank you, I will never tip him again.

You as a player, have no responsibility to compensate for others not tipping.