Tipping CONTAINMENT thread. - Page 308 - Poker Card Room

No analogy is exactly the same thing, therefore, you apparently object to ever using analogies.

Can you not use your brain to analyze what part of the waitress analogy may or may not apply to poker dealers?

Tipping in both poker and restaurants is a matter of social custom. If people start violating social custom, things will change. Some restaurants now add service fees to bills. If a sufficient number of players stop tipping at poker, poker rooms will raise the rake or something similar, just as some tournaments now automatically reserve some of the prize pool as a mandatory tip for staff.

I don't outright object to analogies as they are sometimes useful. However, I don't see the waiter analogy being one because there are enough differences to me, for example, a 'bad' waitress doesn't cost me money.

I don't know why some ppl keep saying my stance=no tipping, period, which is wrong. I tip, but based on my criteria. I'm not advocating a ban on tipping or anything like that. I'm just selective and don't blindly tip everyone and their mother just because they gave me a $5 pot, esp if they gave me awful beats in the past. Ok, I take that back, I may still tip my good dealers even though it's a really small pot.

Quote

03-06-2018 , 06:43 PM

#7677

El Diablo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 70,770

Ss,

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1

That's hard to compare as I only play live the low levels 1/2 and 2/5, how much do most players tip?

Most recreational players where I play tip $1 on small/medium pots, more on medium/large pots.

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03-06-2018 , 06:45 PM

#7678

ss1

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 601

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo

Ss,

Most recreational players where I play tip $1 on small/medium pots, more on medium/large pots.

I'm consistent w/ that, $1-5.

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03-06-2018 , 06:45 PM

#7679

El Diablo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 70,770

Suit,

I did a little research, and you’re already required to pay FICA/FUTA/etc on employee tips, so never mind what I said about it being average $1.20/hand extra the room needs to rake. They just need to rake an average of an extra $1/hand.

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03-06-2018 , 06:48 PM

#7680

El Diablo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 70,770

Ss,

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1

I'm consistent w/ that, $1-5.

Ok that just means that you’re using your “strategy” to rationalize paying about half the amount in tips as other players. You’re like the guy who tips 7-10% at restaurants.

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03-06-2018 , 06:50 PM

#7681

ss1

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 601

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo

If you tip them about double as much as most players tip all dealers, then your tipping strategy is probably just as good as most other players.

Requoting this as you brought up an interesting point. To the ppl that are "offended" by my tipping criteria, would your opinion change if I ended up tipping the same $ amount as a "reg tipper" in total, with the only difference being the tip distribution to the dealers?

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03-06-2018 , 06:51 PM

#7682

BDHarrison

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 4,531

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1

People are giving you grief because it seems you have the stupid criteria of whether or not a dealer has dealt you a bad beat in the past, when their dealing doesn't cost you money because they don't affect whether you win or lose.

It's like if you ate at the same restaurant before playing poker and only tip waitresses who consistently serve you a "lucky meal" that you often win after and never tip waitresses who you seem to draw often before your worst sessions.

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03-06-2018 , 06:52 PM

#7683

ss1

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 601

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo

Ss,

Ok that just means that you’re using your “strategy” to rationalize paying about half the amount in tips as other players. You’re like the guy who tips 7-10% at restaurants.

That's only if your assumption is correct in that I only tip 1/2 the dealers that gave me pots. I'm not sure about your perspective, I'm not looking at "ok, I will only tip X amount this session", I'm tipping as the situation arises, so it could be more or less.

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03-06-2018 , 06:54 PM

#7684

ss1

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 601

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDHarrison

Well, ppl are so easy to jump to conclusions that it's "stupid" or "irrational" but they can't explain it themselves. My criteria is quite clear and based on data. I'm not just gonna blindly tip no matter what.

Again, the waitress analogy doesn't fit.

Finally, of course it cost me money, they didn't control the cards but the result's still there.

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03-06-2018 , 07:00 PM

#7685

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 21,457

Except that we did explain quite clearly why your criteria are irrational.

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03-06-2018 , 07:00 PM

#7686

El Diablo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 70,770

Ss,

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1

Are you tipping the lucky dealers for pots they deal that you lose?

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03-06-2018 , 07:05 PM

#7687

ss1

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 601

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Except that we did explain quite clearly why your criteria are irrational.

On surface but if you really look into it, there's logic to it. Anyway, you can tip how you like. I'm not going to start tipping dealers that burned me and keep burning me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo

Ss,

Are you tipping the lucky dealers for pots they deal that you lose?

Of course not, wasn't it established that ppl who tip even when they lose are in the extremely small minority?

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03-06-2018 , 07:11 PM

#7688

El Diablo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 70,770

Ss1,

But they tip all the dealers, lucky or unlucky, for pots they win.

When you win a pot, you tip your lucky dealers in the same range as what other players tip both lucky and unlucky dealers for winning pots.

If half your dealers are lucky ones, you tip about half as much as other players. If only 10% of your dealers are unlucky ones, then you tip almost as much as the other players.

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03-06-2018 , 07:20 PM

#7689

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 21,457

I have a theoretical situation for you, SS1, and I hope you can humor me with your honest answers to two questions.

Your best friend decides on a career change and starts dealing poker at your local casino. After a few months (and many bad beats) of playing at his tables, you decide that he is one of your "unlucky dealers".

Do you still like him?

Do you still tip him?

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03-06-2018 , 07:22 PM

#7690

27offsuit

actions have consequences!

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 38,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

What about El? Does this mean you only agree with him?

You all haven't a clue.

No, it means El D is the terminator.

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03-06-2018 , 07:34 PM

#7691

27offsuit

actions have consequences!

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 38,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo

Ss1,
You track the results of each dealer for every down they’ve dealt to you? I don’t believe that.

El D,

The other guy Answer20 who tips at the end of his playing time does this too...in tournaments. He said he actually tracks the cards that dealers give him during a tournament, and if he is lucky enough to get paid, he will seek out these specific dealers to tip them accordingly. If they pool tips, he said he is not above meeting them in the parking lot so he can tip only who he wants.

ss,

Serious question. Are you like 19?

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03-06-2018 , 07:57 PM

#7692

Rapini

ragging

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 13,096

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1

Finally, of course it cost me money, they didn't control the cards but the result's still there.

If you can't figure out why this is incorrect, you're a lost cause and I for one would appreciate it if other people stopped engaging you.

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03-06-2018 , 07:58 PM

#7693

El Diablo

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 70,770

27,

I do that for cash games too. It tends to get a little cumbersome running the EV calcs for every hand while still at the cardroom. So I just tell dealers I don’t tip on every hand, but will see how I ran vs expectation with them dealing and will square it up with them after every 100 downs they deal me. It’s not the long run, so I still might get screwed if they deal me some very unlucky hands right after that, but I don’t want to be unfair to them and make them have to wait decades before I tip them.

Quote

03-06-2018 , 08:10 PM

#7694

ss1

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 601

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapini

If you can't figure out why this is incorrect, you're a lost cause and I for one would appreciate it if other people stopped engaging you.

Who are you to say that? Obviously we're having a good conversation, if you don't like it, you can elect not to participate.

What is there to figure out? I don't like dealers that deal me badbeats and cold decks (resulting in overall historical loss with that dealer). Tough luck you disagree. You can't control who I tip or not.

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03-06-2018 , 08:17 PM

#7695

27offsuit

actions have consequences!

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 38,578

Yah Rapini, TOUGH LUCK PAL!

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03-06-2018 , 08:19 PM

#7696

27offsuit

actions have consequences!

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 38,578

ss,

Are you the guy at the table that sighs every time they don't get a hand, and then when that happens for an orbit you start whizzing cards back at dealer, and then after that you start berating the dealer and giving him the stinkeye every time he doesn't give you a playable hand?

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03-06-2018 , 08:21 PM

#7697

El Diablo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 70,770

Rapini,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapini

If you can't figure out why this is incorrect, you're a lost cause and I for one would appreciate it if other people stopped engaging you.

He’s correct there. The cards dealt by each specific dealer do make him or cost him money.

Quote

03-06-2018 , 08:23 PM

#7698

El Diablo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 70,770

27,

Quote:

Originally Posted by 27offsuit

I can tell you if he plays blackjack he gets really worked up by players who play wrong and take the dealer’s bust card!

Quote

03-06-2018 , 08:24 PM

#7699

ss1

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 601

To the guy asking if I'm 19,
I'm obviously more mature than the lot of you who insist on insults vs a good debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo

Not sure if your last sentence jives. Does not compute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Sure, I'll play. Of course I'll still like him and I'll probably still tip him. Liking the dealer is a big factor in my books, for example, if a dealer keeps giving me pots but is a total jerk and unprofessional, I'll be struggling mightily to tip him. I'll still grudgingly have to give him something but I won't enjoy it.

What's your Freudian analysis?

Quote

03-06-2018 , 08:30 PM

#7700

ss1

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 601

Quote:

Originally Posted by 27offsuit

I know you're giving me a hard time but I'll answer you honestly/seriously.

I never say anything negative at the table. I've taken some sick beats (like everyone else) but I never react. I've seen others explode and attack donkeys, berate their play, I just take it with a straight face.

I'm pretty much silent at the table. Very efficient and courteous not to slow down play. I don't tilt even though I get trash hands...That's part of the game, right?

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