In my mind I go to the casino to make money, not for the ambience, food, drinks or socialization, although they are externalities.

I don't go to a restaurant to make money.

That's all the difference in the world.

Right now I have a pretty good relationship with most dealers/floors and I tip $2-4 on a big pot... but, when stuck tip $1. I think this is fine and while I understand all the peoples various viewpoints, they haven't changed mine.

Plenty of people throw the floor or dealers $15 or $20. I find that crazy and would rather the money stayed on the table.

Obviously if you're a dealer you're going to have a conflicting viewpoint on this.

I don't look at this as reducing your tips when stuck.

You are a $1 per pot tipper and are more generous when ahead.

I *Want* to be a $1 a pot tipper. I think I tip too much honestly. I tip $1 a pot as long as its not a chop or a really small pot. I tip $2-4 on pretty much every big pot, even if I'm stuck. If it's like a $1000+ pot I might throw a five or even 6 every once in a while, but, I try to limit it to $4.

I was actually running bad for a little while, but, I put in a few crazy sessions and got it all back. I didn't really tip less ... but, think that it's perfectly reasonable to and was even starting to think of reasons not to tip.

When your wallets hurting you look for any way to ease the stress... Dealers/floors should expect that, that's all.

If your wallet is hurting maybe you shouldn't be gambling...

You're tipping above average especially if you play for a living. Dealers should not expect anything more than $1 per winning hand(although of course they may want more and think they deserve more) but honestly, if they're doing the same exact thing, which is dealing out a hand, the fact that you may have just dragged a 1k pot should make no difference on the size of your tip. When you lose a hand and complain to the dealer(not saying you do that), a common response from them is often: "Hey, I'm just dealing the cards, blame the shuffler." Ok, well how come they wanna take the credit when you drag that big pot, then? Never quite understood that.

Anyway, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, it's your money, tip the dealers whatever makes you happy; I was just neutralizing some of the negative feedback you were getting because it seems to me that you DO tip well. My motto is to not tip based on pot size but rather overall dealer performance. I think that's what(or should) improve the dealers, because, if they always got extra tips when someone won a really big pot, then there really isn't any incentive with that.

To add, my commentary was based on the assumption that you pretty much stopped tipping during your downswings. Sounds like you're tipping them standard 'pro player' tip at your low points which, like Rush just said, is totally fine and all a dealer should really expect (if they're allowed to expect anything at all?).

That's like saying if you can't afford to get stiffed maybe you shouldn't pitch cards for a living. Of course the current standard is way too high, the dealer is the best player (makes the most money) at the overwhelming majority of card tables that run, and it's such a great job for those who would take it that the only way to get it is to know someone (general advice I see) and virtually no dealer ever moves on for monetary reasons.

As long as you recognize that that applies to you and not to everyone, then that's fine. You were making it sound like you were stating a fact as opposed to an opinion.

That's true too. It's true for every choice that if the costs of one option are too high for your comfort, you should consider your other options.

FWIW, I've probably played in 20+ casinos/cardrooms, and can't recall ever seeing a dealer act resentful or unhappy with receiving $1 tips.

A special shout out of thanks to the person who referenced me the other day as one of the noteworthy participants of this thread. I haven't posted here in a long while and it's gratifying to know that I left such an impression.

Even still, I keep an eye on the thread and my face always lights up when I see that the nittiest discussion on 2p2 is back on the top of b&m.

Regarding the post which I've quoted above, in my experience, nobody ever thinks they're bad at their job, whether it's dealing cards, medicine, carpentry, or anything else. Take an informal poll of your friends and family - I'll bet every one of them rates themselves in the upper half of whatever it is that they do for a living, unless they've just begun a new career and still need time for seasoning.

If you stiff a dealer you don't like, they won't take it as incentive to work harder or to have a better attitude. They'll just think you're a stiff.

[QUOTE: RUSH]

My motto is to not tip based on pot size but rather overall dealer performance. I think that's what(or should) improve the dealers, because, if they always got extra tips when someone won a really big pot, then there really isn't any incentive with that.


^
Well, if someone has delusions of grandeur then that's their problem. You see, if I don't like a dealer, there's a good reason for it; they either have a rotten personality or they are just really bad at their job. Or both. And, if I politely try to explain to them that their pitch is way too high, or they're not chopping the pot correctly, or they're not calling out the pairs in Stud(when they should be) etc. etc., and they don't even try to correct it, then there's something seriously wrong there, and, if I decide to not tip them anymore because of their incompetence, then why do you think that I would even care what they thought of me? From my standpoint, it's the bad dealer who decided not to care first. Besides, I prefer tipping people who I like, and I don't just randomly decide who to like; there's reasons why I like certain dealers, it's because they take pride in their profession. I don't know if you're a dealer or not, but I would think that you would prefer my views on this instead of explaining to me what a bad dealer is going to think of me. Who cares?

I think he does.

He was just pointing out that it's probably not gonna get the dealer to realize he sucks.

You guys are correct about most people not realizing that they suck at their jobs when they actually do; however, once a dealer is going home every night with an average of 35% fewer tokes than the average dealer, for a couple of years, then that dealer is going to consider that he or she is not getting bad beat everyday by drawing mostly stiff tables every down, so they'll either work harder, become (or stay) complacent, or move on to another profession. Personally, I'd like to help in making him or her come to this career decision as soon as possible, for both the dealers and the players' sakes, so I only tip based on professionalism, and I tip those very well.

Well said.

And I've known and worked with some truly horrible dealers but I've never met one who routinely earns 35% below the average.

I disagree. For instance (and this is just one example, there's more, too) there's a particular dealer who's been dealing at this same place for over 15 years and he continually makes the type of mistakes that a dealer shouldn't make. I took him aside one day and simply explained to him what he was doing wrong and why I wasn't tipping him. Do you know that when he comes to my table now he actually is showing an effort to improve? I can't say that he's making that same effort on the other tables but as long as he's not making tons of mistakes in my game, then hey, I really don't care.

Some people just get so complacent in their job(all jobs not just dealers) that sometimes they need a little wake up call, especially for people who work on tips.

It's easy to tell people they shouldn't play without proper bankroll management and everything else.

I've been playing for 10 years. I don't really have another source of income.

If I run bad, it hurts. I don't have many other options, even though I'm college educated. I have health problems and can't work a 9 to 5.

I'm not trying to make a sob story, I'm just saying you should think about the vast amount of people with different situations than yours before you make a jab.

Yea definitely just an opinion/my perspective. I think a lot of regulars/pros share my perspective, but, a lot of people don't and don't have to.

The question is if just "not tipping" will get Joe Dealer to realize that he needs to work on his skills/attitudes. Not if you take the guy aside and talk to him.

Talking to him may or may not work.
Just not tipping does not.

Fair enough. Although you nor I can't say for certain, there's a good chance he doesn't improve without the "pep talk".

Come to the bay area... where rich engineers and programmers tip $20 and either get really lucky or lose like 2k a night.

And the Borgata ^

Well said. I've never been pulled aside by a player, but I'd certainly take what they said into serious consideration if they gave me constructive criticism in a respectful manner.

On the other hand, when a player makes a habit of not tipping me I assume that either he doesn't tip at all or that he doesn't like me for reasons that likely have nothing to do with my job performance.

For instance, there are some players who think I'm a bad dealer because I never give them good cards or because I enforce the English only rule on the table. If these players think I'm going to magically give them good hands or that I'll stop enforcing the rules in order to get their tips then they're mistaken.

I can't speak for everyone.. but, even dealers I have had a problem with I only stiffed like one pot/their down.

Maybe I'm too soft.

I'm not throwing a jab. I didn't even say that you should necessarily choose another option — I said you should consider another option if you have one. Please read my post literally.

If I can't afford the costs associated with going out to eat, for instance, I consider and then choose another option. I don't expect an innocent and unsuspecting server to incur those costs.

I'd like to think I'd make a similar decision if I were playing poker for a living and couldn't afford the costs of doing so, for more reasons than just the tipping element.