Is this happening in other poker rooms? Any thoughts to share? I play in S Florida and they have just added one of each of these tables into our poker room.

The setup is weird. I'm told this is the same thing that they do in CA where someone has to act as the bank and the house is just taking a cut? The environment over there is not very inviting and some players told me today that they couldn't figure out who was working for who, and that the dealer wouldn't teach them how to play properly.

Mixed feelings here. A few of the fish are migrating over there but nobody that will be truly missed yet. I have some fears that our biggest fish might sit there and this would not be good for us at the $1/$2.

I am seeing a few new faces on those tables that usually don't come to our poker room so maybe this will bring more action to the real poker tables overall?

Depends on how many tables your poker room has; some casinos will have poker dealers rotate through table games and vice versa. It does seem kind of stupid though, 3 card poker and Ultimate Texas Holdem are both more table games than they are poker games.

If this is in S. Florida, Yes. The house cant be the bank unless its an Indian Casino so a player has to be the bank. In most of these rooms, the bank is actually a company that pays a person to sit there and bank it for them.

It should have very little affect on the regular poker in the room.

In CA it doesnt make much difference to the poker side. If anything bringing in gamblers is good. Im not surprised that the dealers were confused lol, player banked table games are a little different than regular casino table games. The groups that bank table games in CA cardrooms realized they could do the same in FL a few years ago.

The carnival games are horrible competition for the poker games. You'll soon learn that the biggest fish are migrating over to the carnival games where they can get their action fix more rapidly than sitting at a 2-5 or 5-10 NL or Omaha table.

I've had the exact opposite experience than Bolt is indicating. When a casino finished their expansion of the poker room they did put a couple of table games into the room ... but they were quickly gone as they got very little action.

While I agree that one can have the opinion that Players who are waiting may play. And quite possibly you could pick up some curious new Players who will stop into that area of the casino for the first time and maybe also take a shot at poker. But it is my overwhelming opinion that the last thing a poker player wants to do is play a table game in the poker room in front of all the other players after a bust out or while trying to take a break from the table ... which is now within earshot during their 'break'.

Our casino just finished a study of the impact that the poker room has had on the casino since it opened a little over a year ago. The room blasted through just about all of it's expectations except in one area .... Being the side action that poker players (and their wives or others who may have come to the casino for the first time due to the poker room opening) gave the slots and pits. These number were very underwhelming to the point where the amount of casino tier credits being given poker players has been reduced by 90% since the room first opened.

I didn't get the information about if the action given by the 'degen' type poker players that were already Regs at the casino before the poker room opened had gone up or down. But basically the casino has surmised (what we all already knew) that poker patrons should not be afforded the same benefit package as those who play slots and pit games. GL

I should probably clarify that this is all going to depend on what other games are offered by your casino.

In Florida, there are 3 different classes.

1. Seminole Casinos: These have Vegas style slots, Blackjack, Pai-Gow, Baccarat, plus 3 Card Poker, Ultimate Texas, and other various card games that you can play against the house with a live dealer. No craps or roulette.

2. Miami-Dade County & Broward County (this is the Miami/Ft Lauderdale area) has Vegas style slots and poker, but no blackjack or other games against the house.

3. The rest of Florida has only poker and no slots.

Just about all of the rooms in the state offer Ultimate and 3 card poker. The rooms that aren't owned by the Seminole Tribe have a "neutral" player banker who accepts and pays the bets and the house takes a rake.

Particularly in the 3rd group, but also to a degree in the 2nd group, the only way a true gambler can get his fix is to play the carnival games.

If your room already offers live blackjack, roulette, etc. then the players who just want a thrill aren't playing poker anyhow. But if you've had a room where poker was the biggest action in the building, then you'll find that these players are gravitating to ultimate hold'em, 3 card poker, and anywhere else they can get a quick fix.

I have to disagree with this. Hardly anyone plays Ultimate Hold Em or 3 card poker at the Isle.
They have 6-7 tables with 6 seats at each table and there's rarely more than 1-3 people playing.

I’ve dealt in two Florida rooms and Bolt is dead on. I currently deal in a room with 25 total tables and 8 are now table games. We have 3-card, High card flush, 2 UTH tables, 2 Pai Gow tables and 2 Wild card stud tables. We have lots of poker players who go back and forth all the time. During the week we’ll have action on 3-5 table games and on the weekends all of them will get action...

Which 2 rooms?

what is the ante/rake the room is taking in table games?

Since action on table games in FL is backed by a player-banker, I am wondering about the profitability of a table game vs poker table in these venues.

I assume you'll be heading to Florida to test out this room. Answer20 aka Mr.Ultimatetexasholdem

This happened in a Seattle poker room. However, the room only had 10 tables to start with.

The casino no longer has a poker room, though it did take several years.

I've noticed this at the Isle. I can also confirm that these games were a colossal failure when they ran at Gulfstream. My guess is that their proximity to Hard Rock (and in The Isle's case to both Hard Rock and Seminole Coconut Creek) meant that the people who just want to gam-booool aren't going to The Isle in the first place.

But the carnival games sucked a lot of life out of Magic City. And the carnival games absolutely crush at The Kennel Club. I've also seen smaller rooms, like Naples Dog Track, Ft Pierce Jai Alai, and Oxford Downs, where the carnival games were very disruptive to the 2-5 games or to any games that might possibly get spread bigger than 2-5.

Technically, all of the rake is paid by the player-banker. The player odds at these tables are comparable or slightly better than in a traditional casino. But there's one big trade-off. The player has to beat the banker to get paid on the bonus bet. For instance, if you get trips at UTH but the dealer has a flush, you still get paid for the trips+ bonus bet in a real casino. But at the player-banker tables, this is a losing bet.

3 card poker is one of the easiest table games to beat, just look for a weak dealer

What, its like homer dealing blackjack and everyone is a winner? then everyone leaves once dealer changes? lol

not exactly. the game is poorly designed, and often a weak dealer will flash one of their cards, changing it from a 3% house edge to a 3% player advantage.

Pensacola and Oxford Downs in central Florida

We rake $1 for up to $100 wagered, $5 from $101-300, $7 from $301-$500, $10 $501-800, $15 $801-1000 and $25 $1001+. With a table raking $5 and a fast dealer I think it’s definitely more profitable than Hold ‘em but then there’s periods where you’re only raking $1 or it’s a dead spread. I’d say the more popular games bring in comparable rake. We also have a couple Pai Gow whales who play big enough for $25 rake, so those days we kill it.

Also if there’s ever a second banker, the rake TRIPLES. The resident company that banks every day negotiates that to discourage competition. We had a few local guys try it but it’s just too hard to beat that rake.

Ive never heard of different players being charged different rake, thats pretty shady imo .Certain california card rooms are rumored to invent excuses to boot players who only bank in optimal fashion

The bankers are all charged the same rake. It’s just that the rake structure triples when there’s a second banker in the game. They alternate banking hand by hand but both pay the higher rake.

thanks. I was assuming players put out an ante per hand.


sounds like amount wagered from all players per hand is added and then banker pays rake to house.

do most the tracks only offer carnival games (ultimate, 3-card poker, etc) or do they also deal blackjack?

Yeah the banker adds up the amount wagered and provides the rake to the dealer, they pay the rake wether they win or lose money on the actual hand.

In Florida, the dog track/horse track/Jai alai poker rooms aren’t permitted to spread blackjack. The Seminole tribe has as exclusive agreement with the state that allows them to have it. Our carnival games must be “poker” themed. In order to win any bet, including the bonus you have to beat the dealer’s hand.

I've visited Oxford Downs multiple times. Before the carnival came, there was a 2-5 NL or a 1-2 PLO game running pretty regularly and those games played loose.

Now they're lucky to get 3 nitty 1-2 NL games running and the carnival games frequently have no available seats.