It's not OK, but the person who get punished (if any) is the one who actually violated OPTAH, the one who told Player B to table his hand, not Player B himself. Player B's hand is tabled, is generally live, and generally wins.

Otherwise, anytime you wanted to **** with someone, you could just wait until showdown and then tell them to table their hand before they do so on their own. Bingo, their hand is dead.

I will typically tell the floor of he errors I saw, but usually leave out the dealers name (though some of the floors disagree with me, they want to know who is having issues so they can train them directly) I'm probably more a rules nit than I should be, so a dealer really has to screw up the same repeatedly for me to mention it to the floors I am friendly with. YOu want to give good feedback so that they can improve. You do not want to get into the mindset of blaming te dealers mistakes for why you aren't doing well

Hijack: Telling a floor that someone is doing something wrong and not telling them who it is serves no purpose. You can't retrain the entire staff every time one person is doing something incorrect.

Look, I get that you think you are experienced ..... but I find it impossible to consider anyone an experienced poker player in the modern game who hasn't heard "cards speak". And how experienced can you really be if this has never come up in all the time you played.

its okay to not be experienced. We were all not experienced poker players at some point. Nothing to be ashamed about. But you will learn faster if accept the fact that you have much to learn.

What would I gain by falsely claiming that I am experienced, while I am not? It is not like it gives me any advantage or anything. Not being certain about ONE rule cannot possibly deem you inexperienced...

You cannot think of one single thing that you learned a few years after you started playing poker? If so, wow...

"Cards speak" is a fairly basic term despite being relatively old school because it's not used (obviously) in the on-line game.

If the phrase was "post-oak bluff" or something, there would be more of an argument (or defense)

I think the point isn't that you are lying, but that you might be overestimating how experienced you are.

Yes, people learn things every day, but thinking that a tabled hand can be killed just by mucking it, or that a misdeclartion of a tabled hand is binding are very fundamental rules that most people would see in practice within their first dozen sessions.

You came here looking for affirmation that the floor screwed you and you were right to be angry. What you should take away is a mindset f being more open to learning while at the table (learn from players, dealers, and the floor).

Not understanding the "cards speak" concept. Not understanding that retrievable cards can be in played in most places. Not understanding that other folks speaking up when a mistake has been made by player or dealer is part of the rules. Not understanding that the "Best Hand Wins" is the ultimate goal of a poker hand. All these suggest inexperience by the OP. He claims otherwise. Who knows for sure?

One thing for certain. The OP should know now, and that's positive.

It's ONE rule of poker in the way "Stop at red lights" is ONE rule of driving, so yes, it can possibly deem you inexperienced.

Your line of thinking is so bizarre. Maybe consider for a millisecond that you are inexperienced.

I didn't say you were lying. I said that I understand you THINK you are experienced.

The point isn't that you don't know one little rule. The point is that you are completely unfamiliar with one of the most basic rules, one of the first rules people learn. The point is you seem to be saying that in all your experience you have never seen a player miss that they had a winner when that happens often. It is usually caught by the dealer when the hand is tabled ... but if cards didn't speak a dealer couldn't award the pot to the player who says "I missed" when he misses his flush draw and throws down the nut straight.

What I received was the correct ruling in the first couple of posts, which ultimately dwindled down to focusing on me being inexperienced. Pretty unfortunate that I am in no position to prove the contrary.

Either way, appreciate the input and everything. I see no point in arguing any further about this.

No, its not OK, but it doesn't kill B's hand. Ever. It will get his neighbor a warning and possibly the night off if he doesn't learn, but nothing you say can kill someone else's hand.
I don't know why the thread went this way about your experience level, but either way. You now know the rule and can be assured that every time this happens in the future, the best hand will get the pot if it was tabled.

Just last night I got called to a table because the players are saying that the pot got pushed to the wrong player and the other guy had XX but the dealer had already scooped up all the cards so nothing was retrievable. 3 players say they saw his hand and it was the winner, but the dealer wasn't so sure. So I estimated the pot size and took that much from the player and called surveillance. They confirmed what those 3 players saw and I gave the pot to the other guy that actually had the best hand. The statute of limitations on this is basically until the next hand starts, but you can see we try to give the best hand the pot even when there is an error.

Op, learn the rules of the game, bone up on Roberts Rules of Poker. Rooms have various house rules that depart here and there, but much of it is universally accepted.

And

The title of this thread has been corrected.

seems standard to me, if the hand was shown and then mucked but is retrivable i would certainly pay the correct player.

even if its mucked but if its not retrievable id still think the winning hand should be paid

Yes, totally standard and correct ruling

The hand was tabled and tabled hands play regardless of what happens afterwards. You lose the pot.

Also, he doesn't have the "nuts," he has a "lock." The nuts would be 10-Qc.

"this was not the first and only error they made"

Correct. This was not an error. Tabled hand is a tabled hand.

Meteor hits, player gets abducted by aliens, cards catch fire, player says "I fold, don't push me the pot".... none of this matters, the T gets the $.

OP, on the one hand you say you are an experienced live player, 10+ years. I have no reason to not believe that.

however, if i do believe that, then it is very hard to believe that you did not know about "cards speak" or awarding the pot to the best hand etc.
I could be wrong, but failing to get support for your OP you assumed the "didnt know" routine, because if you knew then it would have been pretty scummy


just my thoughts

{grunch}

No.

Cards speak. A tabled hand is a tabled hand. This is not a matter of opinion it's a matter of the rules.

I play very rarely but this has happened to me. I showed, "V" showed and dealer pushed me the pot. "V" and two others pointed out the better 2 pair in V's hand and all agreed (including me). The only problem was making sure he get the right number of chips because some of them had become merged with my stack. Fortunately, bets were easy to re-create and all came out right at the end.

OP:

If you actually feel that the "cards speak" rule is some kind of strange ruling, then you are clearly new to LIVE poker.

(Personally, I'm with you, if I got to win on that type of technicality every time someone tabled a hand without knowing if their low was good or not...I'd have a few more bucks in my pocket). But alas, we're here to help the weak and to keep the game on a more even playing field.

If you have any further questions about some of the other basic rules of the game, feel free to ask, ok?

Your V tabled his hand, which speaks for itself. It was the dealer's mistake.

The T was identified by two players, you, the dealer & your V who didn't realize he had the nutz.

Since the V's hand was tabled, where I play, they would have gone to the camera if that's what it took to protect the integrity of the game.

Let me ask you this: You're in a cash game. You have quad 8s. Your V disgustedly tables what he thinks is a flush, but is actually a str8 flush, using both cards. This qualifies for the bad beat jackpot, which is sitting at 250k.

However, the dealer had a brain fart, & quickly mucked your V's tabled hand, thinking it was nothing but a flush...........what side of the argument are you on now?

You can't have it both ways.

This.

I am sorry, I could not let this go. By your actions, your thought processes, your responses, and your lack of basic knowledge about poker, this cannot possibly be true. You may have played a descent amount of home games or free online app poker, but you almost certainly are not 'quite experienced' in terms of real live poker. Sorry, it is just impossible.

No harm meant, but your continued pettiness of blaming dealers and speaking with the floor about all of their 'mistakes', etc., makes it acceptable to me to point this out. You even knew it was a new casino, with brand new dealers, floor, staff, etc. What did you expect, outside of this ruling, everything to be perfect right from the beginning? I hate to tell you, but the floor was thinking to himself after you left, 'What an a-hat that guy was.'.