Agreed, it certainly could go either way depending on how the floor interprets both players intentions.

However, intentional angle or not, it's hard to rule against a guy who merely said "you win" and tabled a hand. After all, he hasn't done anything wrong. I lean towards the burden falling on the player who mucked (of course the real burden is on the dealer) for knowing that he has to beat a hand that has been tabled.

I think back to all the times I may have said "I missed" or "you're good" but still tabled a hand because I was first to show. I certainly wasn't angling, and I think that is pretty similar to saying "you win".

Was this at a casino or a private room/game?

I generally chuckle at anyone that says "call gaming commission" in these threads but that's what I would do here.

If you insist on a ruling, then here's what I would do: pull the dealer out of the game and make them wish they had called in sick that day (out of site of the poker room), confiscate the amount of money that was in the pot from the player who won without showing at a showdown where a legitimate hand was already tabled, and investigate the player and dealer to see if there was a reasonable possibility that they were colluding. At that point, assuming no obvious collusion between dealer and player was found (it was probably ignorance, incompetence, and blatant stupidity, not intentional collusion that caused this situation), I would probably award the pot to the tabled hand, although the exact circumstances, my impressions of each player, and the things that were left out of the OP might change that.

The exact ruling in situations this incredibly ridiculous will vary according to the impressions of the floor of the situation, players, and dealer's explanation / other player's explanations as to what happened. I won't be pinned down to THIS IS THE EXACT RULING NO MATTER WHAT where the real issue is the incredible incompetency of the staff and (usually) the astounding ignorance of the players.

Really, at some point cardroom personnel need to get a damn grip on reality and train their staff and educate their players. It's so far out of hand these days that the aggravation factor exceeds the enjoyment factor in many locales.

But that's not all he did. He allowed his statement to be interpreted as a fold (perhaps taking advantage of the all-in situation, since the dealer could be tripped up thinking he was folding to a bet), watched the dealer take his cards, watched the dealer push the pot, watched the dealer take the other player's cards, and THEN spoke up.

Yes, the dealer screwed up. But this player had plenty of opportunity to clarify the situation, yet chose to wait until it was impossible to rewind. Considering all this plus the strength of his hand, I'm not inclined to reward the angle-shooting.

I've seen a pot pushed and a hand mucked in less than 2 seconds... while the timing COULD be an angleshot I don't think it's necessarily always one. I mean he could legitimately have thought he lost, seen the pot getting pushed and gone looking for the face up cards that justified that action. He realizes he can't see them, sees the dealer mucking them and lodges a protest. Some players are slow on the uptake, especially when a dealer is acting in violation of the rules of the game and they need to figure out just what the heck is happening.

Now if I'm sitting there are Mr. Q-High watches all this happen in slowmotion and times his complaint intentionally to coincide with the cards already being irretrievable I agree with you, but awarding an entire pot to someone who DID NOT SHOW A WINNING HAND when a VALIDLY TABLED HAND WAS CLEARLY SITTING THERE is absolutely against the best interests of the game. Which is worse, a possible angle-shot by someone who has followed the rules, or an entire pot awarded to a hand that did not showdown versus a tabled hand? Seems pretty clear...

ummm... FIRST of all, why would you expect any different of an outcome?

Second, what percentage of the fault goes to the dealers, in that type of environment- 5%?

I don't expect any different these days. I expect stupidity and incompetence, and rejoice with pleasant surprise when I find otherwise.

The percent fault that goes to the dealers? Well, if you don't care about poker, but you just deal for the easy money, and don't bother to try and produce a great product in your dealing, then all of it.

And if you're an incompetent floor/manager type who doesn't care about poker, just does it for the money, and doesn't bother trying to produce the best product available for your customers, then all of it.

And yes, I know that adds up to 200%.

Please note that when it's a newbie who's trying hard and takes pride in their work, improves over time etc, I'm very forgiving.

Any time I see the phrase 'seems pretty clear' it's a likely indicator that it's probably not.

The player receiving the pot followed the rules, too. He received the pot and released his hand. Why should he be penalized? It's a murky situation, and there are cases to be made either way. It's not cut and dry, especially not without all the details. Rather murky.

Maybe someone who says things like 'you win' and shows no pair should be more careful. Even if the pot pushing took two seconds, that's enough time to holler out. If you're going to do things that can cause others to misunderstand your intent, you shoulder additional responsibility.

The dealer screwed up more than anybody, but given the context, we have to choose the lesser of two evils. One player made an action that was interpreted as conceding the pot, and didn't stop the consequences of that action until it was too late.

I still don't agree that he was doing anything that should be interpreted as "conceding the pot." First of all, he tabled his hand. The cards play, regardless. At worst, he was angling, not conceding, and even that is a judgment call.

Second of all, I know you have the impression that his hand was mucked, but I don't see that in the OP at all. I read it as that his hand remained unkilled even as the pot was pushed elsewhere, but perhaps the OP will have to fill in this detail.

He said "you win"
and watched the pot got pushed to his opponent
and watched as his opponents hand was mucked
and then spoke up when he knew his opponents hand was unretrievable.

I'm ruling that "you win" is binding in this hand and the chips stay where the dealer pushed them.

Fair enough, there are certainly blanks to be filled in. If it all happened in a split second, that pushes it in favor of awarding to the tabled hand. If the tabled hand was mucked before the pot was pushed, then that tips it the other way.

Either way, this is a situation easily avoided if it's not taboo for others to instruct people to table their cards.

No, this was at Garden City, San Jose, a real B&M casino off the interstate.

Out of all the casinos i've ever played out, this one has the absolute worst floor rulings. I swear 1/2 the floor doesn't even play poker and 1/2 the dealers are living breathing Bratz dolls incapable of enforcing the rules of the game.

but at least they are good eye candy though. Something to look at while you are getting angle shot to death.

Ah, I'm definitely with you on this being a circumstance specific situation, and I don't think the CALL is pretty clear. What I think is pretty clear is what is worse for the game between a possible angle that can only be distinguished from slowness or confusion by being there and pushing a pot in violation of the accepted rules of the game. Now if you ARE there and there is clearly an angle that's one thing, but in a vacuum I'm strongly in favor of a tabled hand vs. a non-tabled hand winning.

Here, timing and intent clearly mean a lot and those things are part of what we don't know.

Well here are the strange floor rulings for both of the original hands posted:

Hand #1 ruled a dealer error and the player who mucked gets the side pot and the main pot is split evenly between the two.

Hand #2 I couldn't hear the rationale, but again the pot was split evenly between the two players.

Apparently, the chopped pot is the solution to all conflicts in Jacksonville.

I've read similar ridiculous examples of chopped pots from Tampa Hard Rock, so perhaps that's the solution throughout Florida.

Wow, they implicitly acknowledge a dealer error in both cases and penalize the players for it. That takes a special kind of irresponsibility.

Now that I read this again, I think the guy that mucked just forgot/didn't realize there was an AI player. Maybe he mucked when the dealer pushed him the sidepot. Also note, OP doesn't say the dealer mucked his cards. There's a chance he fired them into the muck himself.

It sounded to me like he mucked because he got pushed the (main) pot. If not for the fact that the other player had tabled his hand, that would be a perfectly normal thing to do.

In the case of the tabled queen-high, there is no way not to penalize one of them due to dealer error.