3 way split pot in a 15/30 Omaha Hi game. All three players show down. The dealer for some reason mucks the 10 seat's winning hand, which is unprotected.

Dealer says the house rule in this case is that as long as two other people in the game see the winning hand, the hand is good. In this case the dealer and multiple players including one of the other winners acknowledged the 10 seat's hand, so no problem.

Is this a standard rule?

cards speak

The muck is not magic.

Cards turned face up at showdown are live and must be properly identified. Seeing as everyone saw what they were and there is no controversy, the dealer's mistake in mucking his hand is irrelevant and the pot should be split properly.

Jeff

Obviously my main point slipped by. This isn't a cards speak or magic muck post. The house here requires 2 players or 1 player + the dealer in addition to the player claiming the pot to see the winning hand for it to play if it is mucked. Is this standard? If not, what is?

I agree the mistake is irrelevant and the specific house rule didn't come into play since all the principals and a couple of other players saw the cards. Still curious about the house rule as stated by the dealer.

i lol'd

I guess they don't have cameras here? I've never heard this rule and it looks like an opportunity for an angle shot.

A hand that has been turned face up and is clearly the winning hand cannot be killed on a technicality or dealer error. Cards speak, and anyone can point this out. With two witnesses (other than the presumed winner) it would be quite a travesty to allow a dealer error to cost this guy his split of the pot.

All dealers do occasionally make mistakes. Heck, I've mucked winners before. But if a hand was clearly the winner, the dealer's mistake cannot be used as an excuse not to award the pot to the best hand.

They have cameras, but the only time I've seen them go to them is for jackpots. This takes so long that I really don't want this to be the rule unless the pot is impounded so play can continue.

I've never heard of this rule either. I'm wondering if the dealer just made it up on the spot since nobody was contesting the 10 seat's right to a share. In general the table nits were just bitching at the dealer for mucking the hand and the 10 seat for not protecting it.

Various angle shots both for and against the 10 seat are possible, I would think that the rule should be that the floor is called if there is controversy and he/she just works it out as best they can.

Interesting. I can't speak to if it's standard policy but it makes some sense.

I'm intepreting the statement to mean that if Player A tables his hand, player B sees the hand and at least one other can verify what player B claims to have seen, then that is sufficient evidence to conclude what the hand was. If this is not the case then other methods might need to be employed

The easiest angle shot is I show down a weak, but winning, high hand. Villains hand is mucked by dealer. villain suddenly claims to have stronger high hand, dealer is confused, and villain's buddy backs him up. If the rest of the table doesn't chime in, I'm screwed because villain is playing with a buddy.

I've seen the "at least two players" rule in Florida, Louisiana, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles.

And I've seen crap like that tried a couple times, except the entire table then erupted to verbally stomp the crap out of the wannabe cheaters. Never seen it actually work.

It's not standard but as long as it's a house rule and it is followed consistently then no one should have a problem with it.

Typically, when a dealer mucks an unprotected hand that hand is dead.

At Foxwoods I've been told by the floor when something like this happens that he needs to hear from 3 credible witnesses.

What I've seen happen a few times is player's A and B are in the pot. They both flip over, player A wins and they both muck, clearly A should hold onto cards until pot is pushed but I digress. Now dealer pushes pot to B. Player B sort of sits there looking uncomfortable and not saying anything, player A blows up and somebody yells "Floor!"

Floor comes over, everybody tries to explain it, dealer clearly can't explain what happened, and usually a local guy will get out, "Player A had hand X for the winner and the dealer pushed to B." Floor says, "Who else saw this?" And most of the table will raise their hand, and the pot goes back to A.

I've asked the floor how many people need to vouch for this and he's told me "3 credible players." Usually as long as B isn't some kind of dick it just goes to A without some big fight involving the floor since he'll agree that he didn't win, it's usually pretty obvious. And when B is a dick and says "I DID have the winner!" the whole table will side with A.. because.. **** that guy, he's a dick.

At the show down when the hand is face-up on the table?

First of all, the cards were NOT unprotected. He tabled his cards, and cards speak regardless of what error the dealer made. Either other players can verify his hand or they can go to the cameras. End of story.