So tonight there were two (presumably) deaf people playing at my table. They clearly knew each other and were frequently signing back and forth. Most of the time neither was involved in a hand, but every once in a while they would sign while one was involved in a hand. They never did it when both were in a hand at the same time.

I have no reason to beleive it was anything other than innocent chatter, but would I be a complete nit if I said something to the floor about signing when in a hand?

Were they signing in English or ASL? If it was ASL, you should have asked them to sign in English. It would be an interesting ADA action if they were told by the floor to stop.

*boggle*

Call me a nit, but that's no different than two people speaking Swahili (or any other language) at the table. "English only" is the rule - ASL is not English.

I'd probably speak to the floor away from the table and have him/her intervene so the dealer doesn't take any heat.

nobody uses signed exact English except hearing people who don't understand deaf people.

a dealer told me he had a situation like this and that they told them English only during the hand.

DURING the hand, they absolutely should not be signing to each other if either is involved. Otherwise, they're free to sign all they like. I've played with a deaf brother+sister at the table and they seemed to understand this without being told--least ways, they behaved appropriately, signing like mad after the hand but keeping "quiet" during. Obviously there needs to be some room for wiggle here, like if a deaf person involved in a hand needs a rule or situation clarified; it'd be ok in that case to speak through an interpreter.

If they are both in a hand, there's no way I would let them sign each other (unless they were heads up in a cash game).

Teh only problem I can see if one signs and the other is out of the hand is if another player at the table can read sign language. I don't know the odds of that but they are probably long so I doubt this would bother me.

Demand an interpreter/translator from the floor...

This thread continues to amaze me.

Why is this? Is it acceptable for two players to pass written notes to each other when one is in the hand and the other isn't? Signing is essentially the same thing unless everyone at the table can understand it.

For the record, it was a great game and there were no signs of collusion so I let it go. If the stakes were higher and/or I suspected information was being passed I wouldn't have had a problem saying something.

Your first post in this thread is probably the most useless post in B&M in a while, btw.

I've played in a lot of games with deaf players. A few things to note: first, there are more people than you might expect who know ASL (or enough of it to follow poker talk). Deaf players using sign language to cheat are not going to get away with that for very long. Doesn't mean some stupid deaf players might not try it, but I suspect (based on my experience) that in general most deaf people are well aware of how much of the hearing population can follow signing.

The players I know don't sign during a hand unless it is for clarification purposes -- like: is that one oversized chip out there a call or a raise? or "how much was that bet?" etc.

They can't tell what YOU are saying either. For that matter, when I'm in seat 8 and seats 1&2 are having a quiet conversation between hands, I can't hear that... maybe the poker table should be run like Parliament and the only person you can talk to is the dealer.

"Mr Dealer, I would like to state for the record that, with all due respect, the Right Honorable player in seat 8 is a donkey"

IN the past I have worked for a casino that determined there was no ADA liability got not allowing signing during the hand that it in no way interferred with their ability to play in the casino.

Thank you. I piss excellence and enjoy being cryptic. It gets me into trouble. It's not the bulk of this thread that amazes me, it's the "Were they signing ASL or English?" and the "demand and interpreter" posts that are gold.

ty. Hime "F"-on-chin Hime.

Nice Post.

You'd be surprised at how many people have at least a good grounding in signing.

I like my facial hair, thank you.

Dude, they are deaf...leave them alone...and actually cut the world some slack and simply kill yourself.

Haha, i'm hard of hearing, and although i don't sign very well (i'm currently taking classes, but i don't need to sign since i do very well with hearing aids), my take on this would be that, as long as they aren't doing it when both are in the hand, it's fine. they can't talk to anyone else, so who are they supposed to talk to when playing poker? if they have a friend they brought along, that's who they are going to want to talk with. that's no different than you talking with your friend about the latest sports game, or what you two think another player had last hand.

sure, they could be telling each other what they had, but as long as it's not high stakes and it doesn't look like they're cheating, let it slide. it's hard enough for deaf people to communicate as it is.

jesus christ you guys are horrible. the spirit of the rule is to prevent collusion. if they both aren't in the hand, they aren't colluding.

<assumption>it's likely 1/2nl so who the [censored] cares?</assumption>

The notion that both have to be in the hand to collude is beyond ridiculous, think.
Player A( Deaf) folds Ax preflop. on the turn there are four of a suit, and playerA signs to his budddy( who is still in the hand) "I had the ace". Collusion? Of course.
Speaking a foreign language, or signing between two people, while ONE or Both are still in the hand is not( or should not) allowed.

you're nitting. if there is a sudden flutter of furious signing, you have a case.

rules are fluid, its why we have judges and juries in the legal analogue of rule enforcement.

You wanna see the seventh card, stop signing freaking sputnik! I'm sure you guys were signing about pirogies and snow but let's cut that out.

Sorry... but someone had to do it.

THE funniest thing I've seen on here in quite some time....

You guys should play in Miami sometime...if the English only rule was enforced, most of the dealers would be silent!!!