So I was playing in a cash game when two deaf dudes sat down in the 1 and 4 seats. There were a lot of deaf people in the casino that day as there seemd to be some sort of bus trip for the deaf that day.

Anyway, they were talking to each other through sign language obviously. They were obviously teaming up on the table in the usual obvious fashion. Raising raising people out of the pot and then checking it down with either air or monsters or whatever.

A few of us at the table were openly talking about how they were teaming up.

So here's a question...they could have been saying anything with the sign language, would it have been an ******* move by anyone else at the table to say to the floor or dealer to enforce the English Only rule?

On one hand they're teaming up but on the other this is the only way they can communicate due to their handicap.

Thoughts?

english only ? what if they were using english signs ? cant imagine there are many rules aimed at deaf people

if they were teaming up I think I would not bother to warn the floor but just move tables ... would be funny though if the floor somehow got involved but had no way of communicating with them

Sign language violates English only and the dealer should have stopped it.

I Have run into this problem and some deaf people understand when they are told, and others get very upset. I had one who thought he was making a point when he complained that other people were speaking at the table.

I know there is no rule against signing at the table but they were communicating in a way that no one else could understand, like if 2 Russian dudes began speaking Russian.

I mean I wouldn't nor did I say anything cuz I mean what can they do that's the only way they can communicate. After picking up on how they team up it was easy to beat them in pots so I wasn't stressing it.

Just wondering how other people would have handled the situation if at all...

ASL != English (despite being "American").

Were they doing it during the hand? If so, they should have been told to stop it.

If if was between hands there is no problem. There is no 'English only' rule between hands.

And perhaps the deaf players thought you were teaming up against them by using your advantage by being able to speak to the other players and to the dealer. FFS, if you can't handle it, either move table or learn to sign.

We have a deaf couple come in now and then. Players complained so I've had to tell them to quit the signing during a hand. Before the wiseass comments come - the guy can hear ok, the girl cannot. They were totally cool with it. Go to the floor and be nice about it if it's a problem.

Under ADA you can't stop them between hands unless you want an ADA (Americans Disability Act lawsuit.

I don't necessarily agree with your legal conclusions .... but who cares if they are signing between hands.

Take time to read the ADA act you cannot discriminate in any way if you allow others to speak you have to allow them to speak and signing is their way of doing so. I am disabled and carry ADA title 3 complaint forms with me, you would be surprised how rules are changed after being told no when these complaint papers are pulled out and I request them to give their name, job title and the reason the reasonable accomodation can not be made.

I am no expert on the ADA....... but it is not a foregone conclusion that being allowed to sign up and away from the table is not a reasonable accommodation.

In any event you failed to answer the actual issue I raised (which makes the legal issue moot).

There are rules that prohibit speaking about a hand in progress, it does not specify what language you use or how the communication is carried out. These rules apply to ALL players.

In other words, the rules against speaking about a hand in progress do not discriminate.

Talking in a language other than English is not permitted DURING hands. This includes ASL, it is no different than two players speaking any language other than English during a hand in progress.

Since it is only during hands in progress and it applies to all players, the restriction is not discrimination. Between hands, they can sign all they wish but when the cards come out, they have to stop talking just as all other players stop talking.

what accommodations do you ask for, if you don't mind sharing?

Collusion is a pretty good reason why the accommodation can not be made...

I have trouble handling chips so I request playing from a rack, also my neck is screwed and plated preventing it from turning in any direction so I request a seat on the end of the poker table so I can see as much as others can. I filed a suit against a casino hotel due to their handicap room. You could not reach the shower controls without standing up somthing that is kinda hard for wheelchair bound people to do and this was a handicap room.They had to make changes to the bathroom, the front desk checkin and pay a fine of $100,000 since they had refused to make any changes.

Unless the casino has that chick who signs the national anthem at sporting events on staff 24/7, it's not like every poker room can have a sign language expert at the ready in the event that a deaf person walks in so they can be sure signers are on the up and up. Just not signing during the hand seems like a "reasonable" accommodation. Between hands, who cares?

We had a lady in a wheelchair freak when she drew an end seat for a tourney - she demanded a 5 or 6 seat. In CO, all tourney seats must be randomly drawn per Gaming Regs. She would have none of it. We offered to have the dealer read the board to her, have a dealer sit by her to handle chips and cards, etc. Nope. She made a huge scene and demanded a 5 or 6 seat or she would sue. In the end, the Assistant GM refunded her buy in and escorted her out (86ed her, basically). This woman was "unreasonable". No lawsuit ever was filed.

The same applies, I assume, to every other language? Either master the 6000 or so languages of the world, or GTFO?

Wouldn't just rotating everyone around the table until she lands in 5 or 6 be reasonable?

How much did you receive as a settlement award?

Federal law overrides all state laws or gaming regulations period. All places must make reasonable accommodations, in poker tourneys that also means seating, example at the last Tunica wsop they had a table set up for the disabled and it was one of the last to be broken. In most events the tables are so close together that it is nearly impossible to get a wheelchair in anything but the outside tables so wheelchair players are seated on outside tables (the randomly drawn seat is overridden) and they don't like to move wheelchairs either since the tables so close and are not set up in ADA compliance. But she had to do something besides threaten to file ADA to get 86'd, it is against the law to trespass someone for requesting that accommodations be made. It seems that you offered to make reasonable accommodations in her case but wouldn't it have just been easier to give her a middle seat and please don't tell me you cannot override assigned seats, I play tourneys in Mississippi, Indiana, Missouri Louisiana, Oklahoma, Nevada, New Jersey and California and have never seen a TD not offer to overide and make reasonable accommodations.

I did not ask for monetary damages I just wanted the shower faucets lowered so I and others could use the shower safely.

An other problem with using ASL is not everyone agrees, understands, knows what cheating means. For example,they may be violating OPTAH rule without realizing it. But if no one was watching who understood ASL then it could not be stop/corrected.

Just my two cents and question. As long as all communications are prohibited during the hand, there should be no problems. Everyone is at same advantage/disadvantage.


If she was the only one that needed a specific seat for whatever reasons, then the seating draw is still random even if you say, whatever she draws will be seat 5 and everyone else will be seating accordingly. It is really the seating order that is being randomly drawn. But then what has if you have 2 or more people at the same table in need of a specific seat?

Sign language being treated the same as any other foreign language is not grounds for an ADA suit. Its english only. Any person who can not speak English is not given the opportunity to speak in some other fashion while at the table.

(also, FWIW I dont know about the "between hands" rule for other languages, I always thought it was always banned, but people seem to say it's only banned during hands. Either way, the same rule would apply for sign language.)

And also...Guess what? Deaf people can speak.