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Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not? Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not?

02-15-2011 , 05:08 PM
I've heard people at Borgata say that if you say "all in" or "call" but don't actually push your chips over the betting line, you don't legally have to give them up. If you don't give them up, the Borg will ban you and you may not make it back to your car alive, but legally you can pick up your chips and walk away. In fact, maybe a month ago, someone at my 2/5 NL table insisted that his opponent who called his all-in physically put the chips over the line before he'd table his cards. He was saying something like, "I've seen that **** happen before where they don't put them over the line."

My question--is this urban legend or not? Is it the policy 1) at the Borgata, 2) in Atlantic City, and 3) anywhere else in the world that you legally don't have to give up your chips if you don't physically push them forward and/or over the line?
Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not? Quote
02-15-2011 , 05:15 PM
In the chips are "in your possession" most casinos cannot physically take them from you. They can call the cops and have the player you refuse to pay file a claim of theft, some places will refuse to convert your chips to cash, and almost all will boot and ban you until you pay the amount you owe, but they won't physically take chips from your stack.
Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not? Quote
02-15-2011 , 05:28 PM
Anytime I've heard of this happening in my area, the player is allowed to leave with a permaban until he pays what he shorted the pot.
Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not? Quote
02-15-2011 , 05:50 PM
Yes, the casino can not physically take the chips and give them to you. The casino can refuse to redeem the chips, since they don't techincally belong to him, they belong to you. The only thing you could do is take them to civil court and sue him for the amount you won. Call the police, get a police report, get video tapes from casino, see him in court.
Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not? Quote
02-15-2011 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baconn
Yes, the casino can not physically take the chips and give them to you. The casino can refuse to redeem the chips, since they don't techincally belong to him, they belong to you. The only thing you could do is take them to civil court and sue him for the amount you won. Call the police, get a police report, get video tapes from casino, see him in court.
over a 2/5 game? I doubt you will see him in court.
Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not? Quote
02-15-2011 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baconn
Yes, the casino can not physically take the chips and give them to you. The casino can refuse to redeem the chips, since they don't techincally belong to him, they belong to you. The only thing you could do is take them to civil court and sue him for the amount you won. Call the police, get a police report, get video tapes from casino, see him in court.
This happened last year in a 10/25 game and I believe security stopped the guy from leaving. I was there at the time but not at the table. I know both players involved in the hand I can ask them what happened exactly next time I see them as I am not sure if he was literally forced to give the chips up, but I do know that everyone hates him for this ridiculous angle shoot and general slow play.
Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not? Quote
02-15-2011 , 06:58 PM
In NJ, depending on how much is withheld, not paying the bet is a crime that is punishable from 18 months to 10 years in prison.

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/New-Jersey/

http://www.state.nj.us/casinos/actre...-article09.pdf

My guess is that a player that absolutely refuses gets escorted by security to someone who explains that it isn't worth 18 months in prison to avoid paying $200.

And according to NJ law,

"(f) Each gaming chip and plaque is solely evidence of a debt that the issuing casino licensee owes to the person legally in possession of the gaming chip or plaque, and shall remain the property of the issuing casino licensee. Each casino licensee shall have the right at any time to demand that the person in possession of the gaming chip or plaque surrender the item for redemption in accordance with (g) below.
(g) Each casino licensee shall redeem promptly its own genuine gaming chips and gaming plaques presented by a patron in person, except when the gaming chips or plaques were obtained or being used unlawfully."

So, those chips aren't yours. The casino owns them and can seize them at any time.
Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not? Quote
02-15-2011 , 07:03 PM
Two nights ago something similar happened. Guy called an all in with the nuts. He didn't push his chips forward as the guy had like 2 outs. Other guy sucked out hard. Caller who lost didn't push any chips forwards, but had the other guy covered. He owed like $220. He stands up and storms over towards the bathroom.

At this point the game stopped. Dealer called the floor over and explained what happened. They ruled we had to wait til the guy returned as they aren't legally allowed to touch a persons chip stack.

The guy wasn't trying to stop the game or debate paying, he was just pissed to lose and walked off steaming. He came back and payed up, but I wonder what would happen if he didn't...
Saying "call" or "all-in" without moving your chips--urban legend or not? Quote

      
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