1/2 NL

Action isn't 100% known since I'm not at the table, but let's say Seat 6 bets 20, 1-2 callers, and seat 5 says all-in and pushes his stacks. While doing so his cards temporarily went over the betting line.

So, is the hand live or dead?

(I'll post the ruling and aftermath after some votes/sages get itt)

lol @ Alive - That would be sick

Live, though I'm sure there are some asinine rooms out there that would rule it dead.

I would say they are live since he declared himself all in, the cards going over the betting line were caused by his chips moving in. It's one thing to just cross the line, it's another for them to be in the muck.

To be specific, they didn't touch either the muck nor did the dealer make a move on them, dealer called for the floor.

Yes there is. Its Lac Vieux Desert Casino in Watersmeet, Michigan!

The hand would be dead in this casino. A stupid stupid rule.

Any casino that rules the hand dead is terribad at life

^

only an idiot casino would call the hand dead

Hand should never ever be called dead here

In our room, the betting line is enforced but only as a betting line, it is not a muck line.

All factors need t be considered in determining if a hand was mucked. Crossing the line could be proof of forward motion but the reason the hand crossed the line is very important.

Dealer didn't need to call the floor, the player was clearly not folding. However if a player claimed the hand was dead due to it's crossing the line, then the dealer needs to call the floor to make the decision.

Floors make decisions, not dealers.

In the rooms around here, if the cards and chips both crossed the line, the player is all in and the hand is dead. Floors around here love ruling to protect their friends and regulars when they're otherwise beat, even when the ruling is sure to get them flamed to death on 2p2.

That takes care of me visiting the Lac Vieux Desert Casino in Watersmeet, Michigan, darn it.

btw: I didn't know there was a desert in Michigan. Learn something everyday if you pay attention.

Its popularly known as Detroit.

Ba-da-BOOM!

I may have been incorrect and seat 6 called for the floor wanting the hand dead based on the paragraph 2 down from this one.

Ruling was hand was live ("How can seat 5 both declare all in and fold?"), which was good.

Seat 6 complaining about it for 5 minutes then talking to the state's equivalence of gaming half an hour later was bad.

The fact 3 people at our table thought it was a bad ruling was sad.

I later went up to floor and thanked the floor, telling them to keep up the good work, that I like a room where we can play poker, and not the rules.

Europe is much bigger on betting lines and ultra-strict enforcement of them with no wiggle room, including that any cards which go over the line are virtually vaporized.

I've seen a couple European visitors throw absolute tantrums over situations just about like OP describes. The concept that the rules just MIGHT be different in different casinos (and that the rules used in "their" casino might be flat out stupid and wrong-headed) doesn't occur to some people.

Dealer and Bando have it right, here:

I see there is already a "dead" vote too, which either means a wind-up/troll, or a complete moron/jerk, and you can quote me on that (to your mom, or the waaaambulance driver), whoever votes or argues "dead."

What really pisses me off is that this situation is so incredibly obviously not a dead hand, yet certain morons will claim that it is and cause a huge stink/endless pointless trolling debates over it, whether live with the floor/other players (as in this case) or here on the forums (give it time, we've already got one vote for a dead hand).

KITNs for this moron who argued with the floor, and the one(s) that vote(d) for a dead hand.

al

Well I don't think there is a desert. I don't know where the name came from.

I discovered that the "line" is a muck line when I was in the big blind. I was not paying attention and placed both my cards face down just across the line. It was limped around to me. They said "you know you are in the big blind" I grabbed my cards and they told me they were mucked. As you know in almost any other casino I would have been given at most a warning.

You can also carry a stack of chips across the line and then drop how many chips you wish, which enables in my opinion angle shooting.

The line btw was really meant to be a "this is where the dealer can reach line", so if you place your chips across the line, the game will move faster. I like having such a line.

In defense of Lac Vieux Desert, they do now have a well run little tournament on Sunday and monthly a bigger tournament and quarterly even bigger tournaments. The larger tournaments which use the adjacent bingo room do attract more action. The small poker room has only 4 tables and during non-tournament events they get maybe two tables going, but usually only one.

Except for the two stupid rules the room is otherwise well run.
Every room seems to have some stupid rules.

LVD is the second best casino of the four that are in the Western Upper Peninsula. It is the second closet casino to me and is a 1.5 hour drive. The closest one is the worst of the four. The best is a 3 hour drive away.