Does "you got it" constitute a muck? Does J.R. have to show his hand to win the pot? Comments please...gogogo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRwvk...eature=related

In many casinos, when there's a showdown, even if one player mucks the other player must table his cards to scoop the pot.

even when someone says you got it without showing it is considered courteous to show your cards, presumably it is because they are bluffing and already having been hurt by losing the pot it is considered rude not to show the winning hand

ROFL - what poker planet did you come from. In most casinos, you must show both cards when called to win the hand. If villian folds, just keep your hand protected until the pot is pushed your way and then muck or show if you must. Keeping information about your play from your opponents is your right when not called!

this situation only occurs when someone bets into you and you call from a later position, or checks from an earlier position, not as you erroneously said- are called on the river

and i said it was courteous to show in a situation where an opponent mucks/gives up without forcing them to show or follow suit and not showing what they assume is the winning hand

If I have to watch any amount of TV poker, even excerpts on youtube, forget it.

Otherwise I'd just kick both players in the nuts, then go grab a chili-cheese dog with extra onions, mustard and jalapenos.

al

But you're about to play HU... for thousands!

It's highly unlikely to be me if it's a televised tournament because I just don't enter them. But in the unlikely event you happen to see someone going on a nut-kicking spree on TV poker sometime, that's probably me.

I was actually playing off your hotdog comment, which you also used in the thread about playing HU and needing to use the bathroom.

What about if:
Two players left, one player shows two pair, the other says "you got it". The dealer then proceeds to ship the pot to first player. Then, before the pot reaches player one, second player says, "oh wait I also have two pair sorry and its bigger". Who wins and what is the rule? How far does the pot have to go? Does the fact that he said, "you got it" constitute a muck? More comments on this would be interesting. P.S. Let's assume it was totally unintentional.

LOL I didn't think anyone would notice that quickly.

My ruling?

The best hand gets the pot, but in this case only if they submit to a KITN first.

Hand is still live until tabled or mucked, regardless of dealer's pot awarding. Dealer shouldn't touch the pot until only 1 hand remains, verbal comments or not. Intentional or not, "you got it" != muck... though if intentional, player deserves a KITN.

+1

Dealer should face the aftermath of Al's hot dog, though, for not taking the cards from "you got it" before awarding the pot.

Both players are right. However, Hellmuth is in the wrong in how he handled things.

Helmuth is right that "you got it" means the Bellande should show his hand.
Bellande is right that "you got it" means that Helmuth should muck.

A more impressive etiquette display between Helmuth and Bellande would be when they got all-in (I'm thinking it was a PAD where Helmuth was stuck), and Helmuth spent ten minutes trying to get insurance with his set against Bellande's TP (or overpair). Helmuth was a HUGE favorite, and instead of letting the table move onto the next hand in an appropriate amount of time, Hellmuth went on and on with his insurance offers. That amounted to one of the worst slow rolls I've ever seen.

"You got it" does not technically constitute a verbal muck, imo. It doesn't technically mean anything. If Phil had the Queen, he could say "You got it", let JRB show his hand, then flip his hand over for the win. Epic scum-sucking, douchebag slow-roll, to be sure, but technically legal.

JRB was technically right to hold out. Phil was the last aggressor, action was on him to show or fold, and "You got it" was not a fold.

If/when Phil folds, JRB does not have to show, he's the last one with a hand.

Before or after Hellmuth mucks? That's the key here.

BEST:
(1) Bettor says, "You got it."
(2) Bettor shows.
(3) Caller shows or mucks.
(4) Dealer mucks losing hand.
(5) Dealer pushes pot to winner.

ACCEPTABLE:
(1) Bettor says, "You got it."
(2) Bettor mucks.
(3) Caller shows hand. (optional or per etiquette)
(4) Dealer pushes pot to caller.

KITN:
(1) Bettor says, "You got it."
(2) Caller shows.
(3) Bettor shows a better hand.
(4) Dealer mucks losing hand.
(5) Dealer pushes pot to winner.

ANNOYING:
(1) Bettor says, "You got it."
(2) Caller says, "You show."
(3) Bettor says, "No, you show."
(4) Repeat steps (2) & (3) x100

UNACCEPTABLE:
(1) Bettor says, "You got it."
(2) Caller shows.
(3) Dealer pushes pot to caller.
(4) Bettor shows a better hand.

I think the producers of PAD scheduled those six players just because they wanted them to have a giant melt down on camera.

Sam Grizzard is not in the same class as the other players at the table but he and Hellmuth have history, they actually got into a fist fight outside the Horseshoe one day in the late 90's I think it was.

I've actually seen it happen where it's been heads up player one says you got it and proceeds to muck and the dealer say "no, no lets see what you got", like tryin to help the guy out.

I think it's a tournament rule. Even if the opponent mucks you must show your hand to receive the pot. In cash games, the pot is awarded when there's only one live hand left.

Many rooms have the rule that if you want to collect the pot at show down, you have to show your hand.

Belande wants Helmuth to muck, he even says, "So I won't have to show my cards." If Phil physically mucks his cards, technically Belande wouldn't have to show, but I think if you want the pot you should show your hand.

Should go: Phil: "You got it" Belande shows and scoops.
I can't believe I totally support Helmuth on this one.

RRoP under Poker Etiquette: The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator:

*Telling anyone to turn a hand faceup at the showdown.

under Rules, The Showdown:

1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show all of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.

5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

Not all casinos follow RRoP on these points.
However, regardless of whether Bellande has to show the winning hand to claim the pot (or whether anyone can demand to see either hand),
1) Hellmuth bet out on the river and was called. He can either show or muck, but it's his obligation to act first, under the rules almost everywhere.
In the situation, Hellmuth is basically trying to get Bellande to show first, without either showing or mucking first himself.
2) "You got it!" does not (almost anywhere, I think) constitute a muck or kill his hand. Hellmuth's hand is still alive at showdown until his hand is physically mucked (by whatever definition of this the particular casino uses).
Suppose (with different hands), Hellmuth says "You got it!" but doesn't muck his hand, Bellande shows, and Hellmuth then says "Oh, I thought you were stronger", and shows a winner. He gets pot. If he had actually mucked first, though, his hand is dead, and it's Bellande's pot.
3) Good etiquette would indeed require that either player go ahead and show if they think they have the winning hand, but Bellande couldn't be confident of this, and (anyway) he had every right to demand that Hellmuth either show or muck first, IMO.
Rules and etiquette aren't always the same.

And yet we still have nobody able to tell us what happens if the last person with a live hand mucks it before it's tabled.

I didn't see this but heard about it from the dealer and the floor.

Hands gets to heads up after betting forced out a third player.

Player A said let's chop it, Player B said okay.

Dealer said you can't chop it after betting someone out.

Player A and Player B both threw their cards in the muck. Dealer called the floor.

Floor came by heard what had happened and said:

"Leave the pot out there, next hand."