No kidding. OP gets his panties in a twist wayyyy too easy.

OK, OK. Point taken. If I knew you better I'd probably have known that criticizing the OP's snobbery and then putting down LHE was so self-contradictory that you couldn't have been serious.

But some people are actually that blind to their self-contradictions. That's the scary part.

I wouldn't even call this guy a douche.. 99 vs AK it's a race.. do you never play NLHE or something!? You 4bet-shoved him and to a lot of people that means ACES or at least QQ KK so for him to consider folding 99 & looking worried is in fact very very real it's standard. As for him saying "you're good", big deal, yes you're good because it's a race and he doesn't hold AA or KK that would make you somewhat "not good".

For you to make such a big deal out of it though, and come on 2+2 begging for sympathy... now whether that is worthy of douche status is open for interpretation.

Agreed...

...and probably guilty too!

It was a race. Some people open, some don't. Not a douchebag.
Take this thread to BBV, bitter old man.

"Villian" gets a 1 or 2 on the scale. These types of comments are pretty standard, he probably didn't realize what he was saying. I could see myself saying the same thing in a friendly way and being misunderstood (eh, maybe). I wasn't there to hear the tone of his voice, etc, but he may have been genuinely trying to be friendly, expecting to see A or K on the flop.

I guess he gets another couple points for his comments while racking, but I don't hold a grudge against hit-and-run-ers, it's just how some people play NL it seems.

There are certainly plenty of jerks, degens, scumbags, and whiners to go around at any poker table. However, there seems to be something special about the internet and TV educated NLHE poker generation. The nits and table captains at LHE or 7-stud usually just make me groan and roll my eyes. But it's at NLHE (which I do like playing) where I regualrly feel the urge to physically hurt someone for excessive douche-bagishness.

For instance, there's nothing quite as infuriating as having some trash-talking punk with his visor on upside down make a bad all in call, pull a massive suck-out, and then start exclaiming about how great player he is, while yelling "ship it, son!"

As somebody who plays mostly limit and finds behavior at NLHE tables to be far more angly, deceitful, and without integrity, this is a fairly minor blip on the scales of injustice (I wouldn't even rate it a 1).

I think you have to develop more patience when you flip your cards and the other guy doesn't. Nothing is going to change the outcome anyway - and you are essentially trying to get him to disclose info about his hand which could help you at a later time. I do this too - but I don't give it a second thought if a guy doesn't tell me the truth.

If he tells you that you are behind then you automatically know he has a pair. And if he tells you that you are ahead you get an idea of how light he calls you down.

His first answer was so close to the truth (you're probably good) that he likely gave you the second one (You're good, you're good) to throw you a little off the trail (i.e., if an A or K hits now you think he might have called you down with some kind of A when he mucks).

damn, I'm disappointed in this thread... i share PJ's sentiments about live NL, and I was hoping to pile on some good old-fashioned NL-hate... but I agree with the consensus here, his comment was obviously meant to say you aren't dominated..

My thoughts exactly.

I've also seen guys say this while almost truly believing it - he's so sure an A or K is coming that he's mentally preparing himself to lose the pot.

Exactly. It's not something I'd have done, but it doesn't sound like he was deliberately slowrolling here or anything like that.

Joker, my two cents is that either the guy didn't know what he was saying or honestly was just confirming that he did not have AA and your hand was not dominated or perhaps was quite sure you had a bigger over pair. I think he is more ignorant than douche-baggish.

Just say "thanks WPT" or "thanks ESPN."

Everytime any of you watch these shows and increase their ratings you perpetuate the cycle, btw.

al

You expect that to mean he has 98o?

Surely you can't be serious.

In the old days the polite players played NL.

PJ,

6.

FWIW, I have never seen the "I want to see that hand" rule abused as much in limit as I have in the $100 to $400 buy-in NL games. It's rare when the losing hand doesn't get exposed -- not really sure why that is, but it can't be good for the game.

Wow. Bitter much? Do you play in AC or at Foxwoods? I only played AC once, but I was actually at a fun table. Typically I like a friendly table environment, and I will try my best to keep it that way if things get hostile. If not, I change tables or just rack up and leave.

This isn't standard in most NL cash games. Typically if someone has AA or KK they will show pf, or some other made hand.


OP,
I'd say the villain in this hand is at least a 5 or 6 d-bag. As far as shoving AK pf in the commerce game, I'd do it all day with the stack you had. People will shove and call a lot lighter than that it seems. It's also pretty standard for bad players to rack up and leave when they make a small profit, or recoup a lot or most of their losses. It may suck, but you'll see plenty of people doing it. He was probably planning on leaving before the BB got to him anyways, but he saw 99 and was like...the nuts, let's limp r/r!

These small buyin games people gamble a lot to build bigger stacks. I had a guy reshove his 400 stack into a 100 pot when the turn brought a flush draw and I had 2nd pair TK w/ NFD shorthanded. I was sure my pair was good (neglecting the redraw), and I was right as he picked up the flush draw also and just had overcards. Those people are crazy in LA it seems like. I need to go back

Sounds like most people on this thread lack appreciation for all forms of poker. I play both LHE and NLHE quite frequently in the interest of maximizing my game selection. Both forms have so many details to constantly learn about. (Also, both can be a dead bore when you're card dead) Arguing about which one is for girls and which one is for champs is much like the Pride vs UFC flame wars (for all us MMA fans). We should really just respect and appreciate both.

As for the douche-i-ness of that 99 player. I'd say it was medium 4 to 5. The kind of stuff you'll see or hear all the time, when a player wants to justify his own play of calling with a medium pocket pair. Douche-i-ness that's absolutely not isolated to NLHE players.

I was in a similiar hand the other night in a small NL game where in my first couple hands I had AKo vs KK and a board that didn't cooperate. The guy doubled through me, racked up to leave, and when I asked him if he was really leaving (mostly in jest) he said "listen BRO, if I stayed here 'till 3am you wouldn't get these chips back!". I thought it was pretty funny. But how does that rate on everyone's douche scale?

Uh oh, addressing people other than your actual son as "son" - that's an automatic 2 points on the douche scale right there. But don't worry son, I'm only joking.

As for Mr. 99 at Commerce- that's about a 1. His intent was not douchic.

You're assuming that he knew that he was a slight favorite and not a slight underdog. Maybe he didn't and he thought you were favored(and thus "you were good.")

Or maybe by "youre good" he just meant "no, you're not dominated" since you specifically asked him if he had AA and then showed your cards.


Seems like you're nitpicking kinda to me. Yeah this stuff happens a lot, but its not a huge deal imo(not that I do it or advocate it though).

Might you be showing your age a bit with the term douchebag? That is a term from the 60's or early 70's?
There is some nozzle plastic dispenser women use now. Is there a slang term for that?

Not in the $1-2 or $1-3 games I'm in. People act like the fact they were willing to get the money in with AA is a state secret.

How much of the douchery in poker is related to limit, not type? You came from a 60/120 game and went into a NL400 game.

I don't imagine that the 60/120 players are playing for the first time. They also probably have enough money that they don't sweat a loss.

Who knows about NL400 players? I've seen the worst behavior at 1/2 NLHE and 4/8 LHE versus any other games. At 5/10 NLHE and 15/30 limit, everybody has been on both sides of the coin multiple times. At that point most are reasonably civil and philosophical about winning and loosing.

I think theres a lot of better stories about bigger douchebags....

Maybe I should've said, typically I open my hand up. I see no merit in slowrolling a monster hand like that, or even opening it up on a J55 board when I was the pf raiser and someone shoves small over a cbet. They may muck their AJ, KJ, QJ and leave everyone in suspense, but a player who is there for a short period and just dumped a buyin....I don't care much as I can imagine what they had.