If it's what I recall, Timo didn't really move the chips much if at all (if they did move, it was just enough so he could pick 'em up, though he didn't pick them up). He did his usual tank for an hour thing, and then reached out and put both hands over two stacks and leaned forward like he was about to move 'em, all while stealing a glance at his opponent.

Timo isn't the first to do this, and not the worst. I thought it was a pretty obvious and silly move. Norm made his usual comment about disliking it.

That, alone, should make people think twice about doing it. You don't want Norman Chad calling you "Bush League" on national TV, do you?

That's what I figured the OP was about. I'm curious why people put up with Timoshenko's immense time wasting. Why not call the clock on him every time the action is on him until he starts making routine plays at reasonable speeds? His behavior isn't going to change if people don't start calling him on it.

If you see something that looks like an angle or you view as starting to push the edge of what you think is ethical or correct behavior at the poker table... complain. Call the guy out on it and get others to do the same. This goes for anything, from tanking, teasing with chips, eating sloppily at the poker table, picking your nose, whatever. Make it known that the behavior is unacceptable and have others do the same.

Otherwise if you are afraid to give off tells to someone who does something like this but isn't crossing any lines, pull a Helmuth and keep your eyes on the board until the player acts.

Oh geez.

Yeah, this is not what I'd call a problem.

I think pretty much any "problem" (including string betting) could be side-stepped by simply waiting for your opponent to finish betting before you react to it. THAT should be the recommended procedure posted big and bold at the entrance of every poker room.

If it is a time rake game, the rule should be that the Sam slowpokes pay more and Quentin quicks pay less.

There should be one of those little stopwatches that they use (or used to) in chess. Pay by the minute!

Every room already has a rule that says when a bet is actually a bet. If you don't know when your opponent has made a bet or you don't wait until his action is complete according to the room's rules and you give off a tell, that's on you.

Know the rules. Wait your turn.

This doesn't need to be a rule. If it's that big of a problem, the dealer or the floor needs to warn the guy trying to angle like this to cut it out.

I'd say rules like that create more angles than they solve.

Why not eliminate chips altogether, and also separate all the players at a table from each other, and have them communicate and bet only through computers....?
Surprised no one's ever thought of this.......

In our homegame, we have what we call the Salaburu Rule, it's way simpler and better: You act immediately, unless it's a huge decision, then you get like 30 seconds.

Fiddling with your chips (without forward motion) to draw a tell is part of poker, there is no point in prohibiting it.

What? The host has to provide huevos rancheros?

Confirmed we all hate it.

How about getting that kid to act faster than 2 minutes on trivial decisions?

Post a video or something to show why this is a problem. Your post states something is wrong but gives no reason. Your idea that handling chips is a bet is absolutely ludicrous.

"It's 180 to you sir."
- player counts out 180 to see what he'd have after and debate a raise or smooth call.
"Oh you touched your chips, that's a call."


Now if this guy is pretending to call....or pushing chips up to the betting line but not over to get a read in houses that enforce that... yeah

But handling chips? Go back to online. Any casino that said touching my chips was a bet would be one I never went back to.

It should be "The SalabuRule"

This is pretty ridiculous imo. I mean, if we shouldn't allow chip touching because baseball is closer to poker than football (wut?), everyone should have to play wearing a top hat containing a live rabbit at all times. I mean, poker has more in common with magic than it does with baseball.

In all seriousness though, the suggested rule is terrible. It would end up causing far more problems than it solves. Most of the time it would be used to force someone to bet when they clearly didn't intend to.

Guy shuffles his chips? Guy is holding his chips when action gets to him? guy moves his chips around to count his own stack? guy goes to tip a waitress? Guy sneezes and falls into his stack? etc.

Even if we make exceptions for all this (and so much other) stuff, it's still an extra layer of complicated that's going to end up needing a floor getting involved, and having to make judgement calls.

The guys most commonly punished by this rule are going to be new players, or the unobservant, and just in general guys you want at the table.... not just because they're good money, but because we're playing poker here, not "gotcha!"

There's no worse feeling in poker than being forced by the rules to take an action you didn't intend. It's happened to us all at least once - we threw out one big chip meaning to raise, or said "I call your 40 and raise you 200," or tossed out the wrong color chips. Yes, having the rules in place that governs what happens in these cases is right and important, but it's still a crappy feeling for the guy who was just having a fun night with friends and discovers his joking "all in!" is binding. Poker needs to create that sort of moment as rarely as possible, not add more of them.

i thought this was going to be a poll about how long players have to act not playing with chips excessively. I think the OP didn't really phrase the problem well... there should be a rule that says people can't stall and prolong their action as long as timoshenko and others do but I think players as a whole should just call clock on them as much as possible. It's been marked as a complete jerk thing to do but tbh they are being worse wasting ever1s times on purpose/for trivial reasons.

Horrible idea. In my entire live poker playing life (like 3 yearsish maybe), I have never once come across a situation where a player's handling of chips was dishonourable but within the rules, let along having a tell drawn from handling of chips. Very simple, stare at the board until it's your turn to act.

Also, I like shuffling chips. It's fun. Not a good idea taking it out of live poker since so many players do it, almost subconsciously.

This. A lot of guys are sitting at the table for hours on end with literally nothing in front of them but chips. Fairly sure most guys would have to achieve total zenlike concentration to keep their hands off their chips, whether it's their turn or not.

I want OP to institute this rule in his home game so we can wager on how many minutes/hours before everyone stands up and walks out.

I spotted a video with the event on Youtube. Dunno if it'll survive copyright cops, but for now it's there. 16:45 into episode 7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqjOHyZxDEU&t=1005

If you look at the clip closely you'll see there was editing, I'm sure to remove a lot of Timoshenko's tanking. At 16:45, Timo has two full stacks of red in front and a 3/4 stack in front of that. At 16:55 he has the small stack on top and is reaching for the two full stacks. So we didn't see everything that happened, but certainly what I see is no problem at all; you are allowed to touch your chips.

It's a terrible suggestion. It takes away one small area of vagueness and potential angleshooting, and adds one MASSIVE area of vagueness and potential angleshooting.

When dealing with the Yevgeniy Timoshenkos of the world at your live table, no need to name a rule after him and thus bring him even more attention than he already clearly wants ... you just need to personally take action and implement the "Annette Obrestad" rule aka CALL THE DAMN CLOCK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...0OH7R4#t=1m58s , http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ZxDEU#t=26m52s

And imagine (based on her comments) that EVERY hand that he's involved in takes even LONGER than this one (because in those he likely doesn't have the stone cold nuts!)

So, if someone is playing with his/her chips with 4 people to act in front of him/her - and then they all quickly check - the player is forced to bet?? Simply because they couldn't put the chips down fast enough??

Speaking as someone who is often playing with his chips - whether I'm in a hand or not, whether it's my turn to act or not, I think that this is one of the worst concepts ever proposed.

Are we playing poker or gotcha?

Ugh! Who's going to referee what constitutes "casual shuffling" as opposed to betting, in this instance? Every poker room I've played in has clear rules as to what constitutes a bet. Forward motion and/or crossing a betting line being the most common. Easy to understand and follow. Just shuffling? Was the player going to bet, and if so, how much?

Imagine the arguments! Imagine the confusion!

More similarities to baseball? Huh? How? How about golf? Should practice swings be penalized??

Just why and how is poker more like baseball than football? Frankly, I don't see the similarities to either sport.

Flugtag, maybe.

Lee

Deception is a part of poker.

From the floor point of view, there would be at least a 43% increase in floor calls. And 22% increase in asking people to leave for repeated failure to follow this rule.

I bet you're part of the 87.3% of people that make up statistics.