And to your question about what is to stop people from doing this to gain an advantage.....umm the criminal law as well as civil liability.

I seem to remember Security Guards being onsite every time I have ever stepped foot into the casino. You're saying players in the poker room don't contribute towards that cost?

The casino should refund money to player and remove chips if the player is physically unable to continue playing due to an unnatural event that occurred in the poker room. Example: someone getting knocked out by a fellow inhabitant of the poker room, waitress spilling hot coffee on to the face of of a player, etc. "Otherwise" refers to my statement that if the player is not refunded and removed from the tournament, then the casino/poker room runs the risk of setting the precedent that players can influence the financial outcomes of a tournament through non-poker related means.

This is obviously an obscure event that 99.999% of players will never experience in a room/tournament. And yes criminal laws will prevent most incidents like this from ever coming to fruition.

Are you just playing devils advocate, or do you actually believe that there is an event that can occur in a poker room where a player, due to no fault of his own, can be physically harmed and unable to continue AND does not deserve a refund?

I absolutely believe that absent negligence or intentional conduct on the part of the casino the player does not DESERVE a refund from the casino. I understand why a casino might choose to give one but it is not because the player deserves a refund from the casino ..... (A refund paid by the offender is a different story). I do believe their are circumstances where the casino would be responsible but not in this case as described

I didn't say that at all, no. The security guards in a casino are there to protect the casino, not you. While they will do their best to help you in an event such as this, the truth is that their best may be to try to stop an ongoing altercation just the same as any other bystander while calling the police to come and handle it.

As for a refund, I could see a good reason to give one in this particular case, but that reason would not be because the have to or are obligated to. It would simply be because they want to avoid a negative PR situation and it would be just good customer service.

Seems we agree that the party unable to continue should be refunded his tournament entry fee, but we disagree on the source of where it should come from. Which is fine, I understand what you are saying a little more clearly now.

I just think it's unreasonable for the casino to force the party to sue his own attacker for $$ when they could just as easily remedy the situation themselves (from a financial aspect, not from the criminal aspect). I mean who's really going to argue with a decision to refund the guy? I couldn't imagine hearing player XYZ got knocked tf out and the Tournament director made the call to blind him out and not refund the player. It just sounds absolutely insane to me that a TD would rule in that manner, regardless of what any of the rules say.

The attacker was apparently owed money. He got felted at the other table and apparently gave a big speech about how he hated everyone in the building. He then stormed over to my table, asked MP (who was an 18 year-old kid) for his money (just $20!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), MP said no and got cracked. Where I was sitting, I couldn't hear the exchange - one of the shaken old men on that side of the table told me what was said.

Attacker was banned for life. The kid who got hit was knocked so silly that someone had to take him home. They didn't give him a cash refund, but they did let him play in the tournament the next night.
The floorman was a big dude, but very docile ordinarily. I was blown away by his power.

He had the guy's neck cranked back so hard that the attacker's spine was bent backward into a C formation. The attacker went to sleep pretty quick. His tongue was hanging out before the floorman dropped him on the floor face first like a sack of potatoes. The floorman yelled "GET 'EM OUTTA HERE!", and 2 or 3 other players grabbed the sucker puncher by his collar and belt and literally threw him out the door like you see in the movies.

Do you think the refund should come out of the prize pool or out of the casinos funds?

I pissed off a lot of players with my mouth at a Detroit Casino.One who lost money he definitely could not afford to lose. I was afraid of getting sucker punched the entire time I stayed at the table.I was also afraid at the parking lot. I LOL'd at this thread.

Also No,players stack should be removed and hand declared dead.Chaos theory one hand totally recalculates the entire tourney.

Either MP was removed from the tournament because he was physically unable to play, or his role in the altercation earned him a DQ. In both instances, I'd say removed the chips from play. In the first instance, give him a refund or some sort of comp equal to his buyin.

If he should be DQd at a min, then that should have been done then. Not wait for the retaliation. He did nothing wrong now so we should treat him as innocent.

FWIW, Employee friends of mine(non security) were suspended for pulling an assailant off of someone and breaking up a fight.

The employees actions prevented serious injury.

They were still suspended.

Casino logic.

Likely they're not allowed to for liability issues. If they're non-security and cause an injury in the process, the casino can be sued.

I'm sure that is the reason.

God Bless America.

This is awesome!

Reminds me of another Deadwood scene, something like, "Free drinks all night for those who help dispose of the body!"

Was this a full or empty bottle? Did it tap out?

In this very regulated charity room in Michigan I missed this as an option. Cash and tournament BIs must be logged as they occur and you are not allowed any 'white-out' or corrections to the report. If the Charity reports that their cash at the end of the night is off they can be subject to audit and potentially lose the opportunity to 'hold' future events.

The Gaming Commission has no way of knowing if there was an 'extra' person playing in the tournament or not. (Well, maybe they do now .. .. )

Room rules apply to the 'abandoned' chips. Some casino's have a rule that if you pre-pay for a tournament then your chips are in play until the end of the registration period. If you haven't shown up by then they take the rest of the chips out of play whether there's a wait list or not.

I just spoke to a tournament reg who was having issues with another player and actually left the property during a late break since he didn't want to potentially have an issue. His stack bubbled!! (Of course!) GL

Curious if you have been back since and found out if this floorman was in any trouble for this?

or the 2 or 3 other ** players ** who got involved and physically threw him out.

If that happened in a major casino, the floorman would probably be out of work and the initial attacker looking at a very nice settlement.

Free Buy-In for another tournament sounds acceptable to me

I'm actually not that curious about the players, under the assumption they were punished for moving an unconscious person (guilty or innocent) around. Or at least, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for them.

But the floorman's case is more nebulous. Employer-mandated intervention or non-intervention aside, it sure seems like he has a moral obligation to restrain the attacker. Was what he did too much?

I'd have a much harder time as a juror in the second case.

The security guards at all the casinos I know make quite a bit less than the dealers and although they have some ability to physically restrain guests nobody is going to be a hero. The way it (seems to me at least) goes is that lots of big burly uniformed bodies show up and maybe light restrain (ie: if a chokehold happened they'd be fired).

Yea that choke hold seems out of a movie. Though I'v seen it done at a club in Chicago. Guess you guys got a good show out of it all. I'd sue the casino if I was the assailant for getting choked out. I'd fake whatever I needed to as instructed by a personal injury lawyer.

Yes, I have. It was in a charity room, so the only people the floor really have to answer to is the State, or perhaps the charity on hand that night? The cops weren't called, so nothing ever came of it other than the attacker getting banned.