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player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers

11-03-2011 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dealer-Guy
What is wrong with making sure the game is played fairly? Do you WANT to play a game you know is NOT square?

Do you really believe that there will ever be a set of universal rules for poker? Surely not, and if you know that is an impossibility, why would you object to a rule to even the playing field (on the rare occasions it would be needed) and keep the game fair?

First off, the rule I quoted is in RRoP under decision making, it is NOT a tournament rule. The TDA does have a similar rule which is also commonly known as "Rule One".

BTW, Matt Savage thinks this is the best rule in the book which is why it is the #1 rule in the TDA rule set What does that say about his ability to direct tournaments, at least IYO?

Have you never been the victim of an angle shot that would cripple or kill your tournament life or cost you your stack in a cash game? Rules can be followed to the letter and the rightful pot winner get screwed in the process. There have been many scenarios described here where the rules were followed but corrupted and a player got screwed by an angle shooting DB.
No reason to have any listed rules just let the floor do whatever they want then.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-03-2011 , 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtex21
In Tunica where I play the player would get a warning but no room has a rule posted against exposing your cards.
I can confirm this... I lived in that area for a number of years. I've seen a guy turn his hand face up and tank for 3-4 minutes contemplating a call(where no action is behind).

Rulings are different all over, even within the same state.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-03-2011 , 08:02 PM
This move is made in desparation by the player. I'm pretty sure we've all been there where we make a significant raise or all in with AA only to get 2 callers immediately to our left. Last thing we want is a whole table calling with "odds" to win. Most of us know better than to expose our hands, but it doesn't mean we can't relate.

A warning from the floor that the next incident will result in a daily/weekly ban seems appropriate. The hand is live.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-03-2011 , 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtex21
No reason to have any listed rules just let the floor do whatever they want then.
Stated rules are usually the result of applying "do what's fair" to specific situations. Since the situations recur, it is useful to have a specific rule so you get a consistent result.

But the overarching principle is still "do what's fair". So when it would be unfair to enforce a rule or something isn't covered, the floor can do what is fair.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-04-2011 , 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtex21
No reason to have any listed rules just let the floor do whatever they want then.
Please respond in a mature and reasonable manner to the (IMO) valid arguments I offered. Let me repeat them here:

Quote:
What is wrong with making sure the game is played fairly? Do you WANT to play a game you know is NOT square?

Do you really believe that there will ever be a set of universal rules for poker? Surely not, and if you know that is an impossibility, why would you object to a rule to even the playing field (on the rare occasions it would be needed) and keep the game fair?

First off, the rule I quoted is in RRoP under decision making, it is NOT a tournament rule. The TDA does have a similar rule which is also commonly known as "Rule One".

BTW, Matt Savage thinks this is the best rule in the book which is why it is the #1 rule in the TDA rule set What does that say about his ability to direct tournaments, at least IYO?

Have you never been the victim of an angle shot that would cripple or kill your tournament life or cost you your stack in a cash game? Rules can be followed to the letter and the rightful pot winner get screwed in the process. There have been many scenarios described here where the rules were followed but corrupted and a player got screwed by an angle shooting DB.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-04-2011 , 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeaz
Exposing your hand in a multi-way pot with action still to come is flat out wrong. They should kill his hand and forfeit his money into the pot for intentionally breaking the rules.
In a tournament yes, that would be the ruling, but in a cash game, while it is ethically wrong because it kills the action behind him, 9 out of 10 times there are no rules against this.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-04-2011 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeaz
Exposing your hand in a multi-way pot with action still to come is flat out wrong. They should kill his hand and forfeit his money into the pot for intentionally breaking the rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuitedJ
In a tournament yes, that would be the ruling, but in a cash game, while it is ethically wrong because it kills the action behind him, 9 out of 10 times there are no rules against this.
Both the above are wrong.

I would never kill the hand, even in a tournament. Tournament rules specify that the hand is NOT dead. The player gets penalized after the hand, usually time away from the table.

In a cash game, multi way pot, this is not going to be tolerated. As described in the OP, the player would be asked to leave after the hand is over.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-04-2011 , 03:56 PM
Heads up in a cash game you can do whatever you want but multiway while action is still going on it's collusion and each card room is different. Some will kill the hand some will let him play it out face up with no more action.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-04-2011 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
Heads up in a cash game you can do whatever you want but multiway while action is still going on it's collusion and each card room is different.
Please explain how OP's example fits "collusion".

While I agree that the guy's actions 'benefit' the Button, SB, and BB while perhaps harming the initial raiser, "collusion" is not the proper word for it.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-04-2011 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle
Please explain how OP's example fits "collusion".

While I agree that the guy's actions 'benefit' the Button, SB, and BB while perhaps harming the initial raiser, "collusion" is not the proper word for it.
You don't know who he knows at the table, sounds fishy either you call it an angle shoot or collusion it's all sematics.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-04-2011 , 07:41 PM
It depends on the poker room. I am not familiar with Hustler's policy. Where I play, it would not kill his hand. His hand would be played face up for the remainder of the hand. If he had chips, he could raise if he wishes. In many casinos, any player may expose one or both of his cards at any time. The only problem here is if it considered to be collusionary with other players.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-04-2011 , 10:30 PM
Action from last night in the Hustler 5/5NL: I raise ATs UTG, shortstack on the button and BB both call. Flop is AT6r, I bet half-pot, shortstack shoves $100; BB tanks, then raises to $500 with $1000 behind. I shove about $580 but didn't realize the BB hadn't called yet. She asks if I have AT, so I said "yes" and turned my cards up; she tanks again and finally calls the extra $80 with A8o [LOL]. Button also had ATs, so we chopped the main, and I [obv] hold up for the $1000 side pot. Sweet!

Nobody complained about my cards going face-up early, as it was an obvious error that should have cost me $80. I guess she was planning on runners for the straight or 8-boat? Funniest part was one guy at the table saying she was priced in for the extra $80 even after seeing my cards.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote
11-07-2011 , 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dealer-Guy
The real issue here is it is a multi-way pot. Exposing your hand here is very wrong because it can cost another player a significant payoff.

Short stack exposes his Queens and anyone who calls him or raises HAS to have him beat. Everyone at the table has a right to build the pot up and the short stack here just denied anyone with K's or A's from doing that.

Heads up it is less offensive but in a multi-way pot, anyone who thinks it's okay is gravely mistaken.

My call would be to tell the player that was his last hand of the night and he better not ever do it again.
This.

Hand is not dead, but it is his last hand of the night. Player gets rest of night off and a KITN on the way out the door.
player deliberately exposes hand multiway because he is close to busto and doesn't want callers Quote

      
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