I was playing 2/5 at chumash tonight. On one hand chk raised a flop. A woman who called the initial c-bet and had to fold to my raise was pissed and said she couldn't see I was in the hand because my hands were covering my cards (My left hand was on top of my cards but you could definitely still see part of the cards).

I took down that pot and then a similar situation arises later. She bets $15 on a flop of K 2 2 and I raise to $40 with A 5. She gets pissed again claiming she didn't know I was in the hand. She says, "I'm going to fold but I'm going to take my $15 back. I play differently depending on who is in the hand and I wouldn't have bet there." I tell her shes going to have to call the floor if she wants her $15. The floor man comes over and rules in her favor without any evidence that my cards were covered other than her word. Doesn't ask the dealer, just hears her story and says she can take her bet back. Lady is a reg btw and I haven't played here in over a year.

At this point me and my friend were both up $1k so we just got up and left. Anyways, how horrible is this ruling? Seems like such a joke that she gets away with a move like that. I told the floor to check the cameras and he was in the process of talking to someone on a phone about it but I didn't care enough to stick around. I was too put off by how easily he made the decision to wait around.

Joke ruling - can't just take back a bet. She owes you $15! Did the dealer not say anything about this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by theATOMbomb

Lady is a reg btw and I haven't played here in over a year.

Chumash can be like that. if the dealer or other players confirm what the lady said, they will rule against you. that being said, there is NO foundation for a player getting the initial raise back just because they didn't see you in the hand. that part is Bull pucky

I would like to know the dealers opinion. Did he agree you were covering your cards?

I have seen guys who cover their cards and don't realize it. Could this be what was happening here?

Though the dealer should have stated 'two players' before dealing the flop so she would have known she was in the hand with someone and a quick scan of the table would have told her who.

I assume that it was more than just the two of them in the hand. If that is the case, she can claim that she didn't see that he was in the hand and only thought that other players were in the hand. If it was heads up at this point, I can not see how she can make her argument to getting her money back.

I feel that the floor not consulting with the dealer is ridiculous. In fact, the whole idea of giving her the money back is crazy. She just burned the whole table by causing all of that money (hero and friend) to leave.

honestly if this happened at a casino i was playing at, i would just immediatly rack up and leave.

Side note, I would have stayed and proceeded to abuse the hell out of that ruling until the floor person came over and fixed it correctly.

"I didn't know he had cards, I'm taking my bet back..."

"What do you mean I can't? She did..."

Obviously this is antagonistic but frankly you are up and probably leaving shortly anyway, so keeping the fish happy is less important to you than getting the ruling fixed.

The initial problem is this- "I was playing 2/5 at chumash tonight."
You compounded the problem of playing at Chumash by asking for a cogent ruling from the floor about an incident that would have been handled correctly at 99.0% of the other casinos in the world.
The woman, clueless or not, didn't "Notice" you were in the pot pre-flop, or post-flop. Its a visual game. She is a moron. And this place is one giant problem when it comes to poker. Folks from Santa Barbara are flocking to Ventura's Players Club. The Chumash people don't know why either. This is one reason.

hello... he didn't ask fro a ruling, she did.

2/5 at the mash can be quite juicy, I don't see an issue with it. as said, it was just a bad ruling, the poker world is full of them... BFD and move on to the next hand

99% of poker player think that their room is the worst in the world at handing out correct rulings.

I am wondering which floor made this ruling as I have always had good experiences at Chumash and their house rules I don't agree with could always get good explanations as why they have those rules and are clearly stated. I have never seen this their before and haven't been in months so maybe things have really changed. Either way, I would still be playing at Chumash if it was convenient because that 2/5 game is one of the softest games anywhere.

I'd speak to the poker room manager. Provide the time of the event and explain that the room owes you $15.

I usually play at Ventura but my friend is under 21 so I went to Chumash with him. The game was really soft. We each bought in for $300 and split eachother's action and ended up with a total profit of about $1600 after 3 hours. We wanted to leave and it was actually a convenient chance to take over $2k off the table without being bothered for pretty much killing the game (was 6 or 7 handed before we left).

BTW, the dealer was not asked by the floor nor did he say anything. The dealer was a younger guy and knows my friend since he is a reg. The look that the dealer gave my friend when the floor allowed the woman to take her bet back pretty much said it all. He knew it was a bad ruling but I don't know if it is his place to argue with the floorman. I'm not too put off by the ruling especially considering it was only $15 but I still think it was ridiculously bad.

My hands were covering my cards to the same extent that Dwan's are here. The cards sat to the left of my stack with my hand like that and she was sitting directly across from me. I was in seat #2 and she was in seat #8.

Yes the ruling is bad, but I for one would prefer it if people didn't cover, or partially cover, their cards in that manner.

If I was in the 1 or 10 seat and the dealer was notorious for folding live hands I might be concerned, but otherwise I just put a chip on my cards and leave them in front of my stack.

Just my two penn'th

I do kinda have a bad habit of putting my left hand over my cards. I have had people say things to me before but IMO you should not play poker if you can't keep track of who is in the pot in a shorthanded game. I don't understand how people can be so clueless at the table but I guess that is why the games are so good.

Yeah I'm not disagreeing here, and I also believe more dealers need to announce how many players are in the hand on each street - they are terrible at this at my local casino.

Just something for you to bear in mind in future, as you've acknowledged.

This ruling is bad, but stop covering your cards.

IMO this ruling becomes good if you're one of those people who always covers his cards, either in your hand or behind your chips. (and you've been appropriately warned, obviously)

I was the friend there with OP and pretty much agree with this. I was in the pot and I asked if you had cards when it came around to you because I kept track of the action and knew you had called pre, but I honestly couldn't see your cards. I think the ruling is BS tho--it allows the lady to play completely perfect and only call it on you if you raise when she doesn't want you to, and because the floor person made a snap ruling and didn't ask for any details.

I think the floor person just saw a pissed off reg who was down a lot to you and I, and a kid who was up big and not really fighting too hard for the $15 and went the path of least resistance. I also think our decision to rack up and leave was the best way to protest the ruling.

For what it's worth the dealer also thought it was a BS ruling, I'm friendly with him from playing there a lot in the past and he gave me a definite "wtf" look when the floor made it. Still, the best thing for everyone going forward is prob just for you to find a clearer way to protect your cards.

Cliffs:
Ruling is BS
Lady was tilting and floor sided with tilting reg without details
OP should protect his cards differently
No money at Chumash, floor isn't solid

Think it's a pretty bad ruling, sometimes in our homegame I have trouble when like 6 people are in the pot to know if this one guy is in, as he doesn't say a word and often puts his cards behind his chips.
Table is sometimes a little bit small(10 max but not so comfortable), but never have we made such a ruling, just a warning and a new rule that cards have to be seeable.
But if it happens and it's not accidently or anything we don't kill a hand for that, unless when warned a few times before.
From this game though, it's shorthanded, probably enough space so you could see everyone.
My opinion is that the lady maybe was just upset because you tricked her before with a checkraise, ruling is horrible though, they could warn you, but taking money out of a pot??
Was it a heads up btw? I mean, she can't be thinking she went alone to the flop?

Three way, I limped on the button. How do you open limp and not notice someone calling behind you?

My friend chk shoved a river on her for like $600 forcing her to fold and go on tilt about 20 minutes prior to the incident. Also, the first time I chk raised I had 44 and made it $120 over a guys $20 c-bet and her flat call. The flop was rainbow 3 over cards and I showed the 44 after she made a big scene about not being able to see me in the hand. lollll

Shes a reg and a consistent loser so I didn't bother getting into it with her. I'll just take her money later.

Your habit has contributed to creating this situation. Stop trying to just blame her without admitting any fault of your own. If you continue to cover your cards, make sure they're visible by spreading your fingers at least or putting your hand in different position indicating you have cards. Stop with being the ninja player.

If I were you I would make a huge deal over this. Setting a precedent that you're a pushover is bad. If the floor remembers next time how much of a headache it was to rule against you then next time the "path of least resistance" in a case like this is to rule for you.

So, not only do you hide your cards, but...

...you're a cheat?

Lot's of players cover their cards with their hands and don't realize that while they may be able to see a small corner of their cards, the person in the 10 seat might not be able to see that corner. Handled poorly, but the OP didn't help himself much.

Nice catch, Didace.