Maybe this has been asked before, and I appologize if it has:

Tournament:

Scenario 1:
Player A bets whatever.
Player B throws in 1 chip (with some other chips in his stack) and says nothing. Player B has now called.

Scenario 2:
Player A bets whatever.
Player B throws in 1 chip (with no other chips behind) and says nothing. Player B is now all in.

This has been ruled this way in a few places that I've played.
This doesn't make sense to me.

Is there a rule on this somewhere that I'm just not aware of?

I disagree with the "ruling" in Scenario 2. It should be just a call.

Is there a reason player B can't just say "call," to avoid this situation alltogether?

Because they don't want to give away any information about their hand. As we all know, if you speak just one syllable, your opponent will immediately read your soul and know exactly what you have... I guess.

Both scenarios should be ruled as a call.

Not my chips. Not my voice.

Just curious what the 'right' answer is.

The thing is, it doesn't matter what the "right" answer is. From room to room, day to day, floor to floor, you'll get different rulings from throwing one chip in. You know how you always make sure it's a call... Say "call."

What if you are Player A? What if you are Player C yet to act?

Oversized chip rule. Both situations are just calls if nothing was verbalized.

Unless in scenario 2 Player A's bet is more than the value of the 1 chip Player B has left. Obviously Player B is all in if his one chip is of lesser value than Player A's bet. And if someone else is left to act, Player B throwing in his last chip is either a call or an "all in for less".

I mean, if you want to say that rules don't matter because of edge cases where someone mistakenly misapplies the rule, that's up to you I guess, but it DOES matter what the rule is.

Or could it be you weren't paying attention to what was actually happening?

Scenario 1
A bets 1500
B throws in a 2500 chip

This is a call.

Scenario 2
A bets 3000
B throws in his last and only chip of 2500.

This is an all-in.

Scenario 2a
A bets 1500
B throws in his last and only chip of 2500.

This should be a call.

Scenario 1a
A bets 3000
B throws in a 2500 chip (not all-in).

This will be dependent on house rules. Should be a call and B owes another 500. But they may allow him to fold but may or may not allow him to take back his chip. Must cases they will not allow him to take back the chip and the 2500 chip must stay in the pot if he folds.

Situation 2 should be a call, I have seen both dealer and player get confused and make this mistake though, "of course he's all, he put all his chips in."

It's definitely wrong to rule this as an all-in, but I can see why it would happen (at least in heads up pots) because there isn't much difference between putting in most of your last chip and all of your last chip (unless it's really big).

By rule both scenarios are a call. Unless there is a house rule superceding the standard TDA 1 chip rule. But I have never seen or heard of this house rule anywhere I have ever played...

If dealer sent me the all-in chip I would send it back.

Also think about how this plays out if you have a huge chip (like 5,000) and the bet is 100. This is why they have the oversized chip rule. So intent doesn't come into it.

How it plays out is this.
1. I say "I call."
2. I put my huge chip I the middle.
3. Everyone knows my exact intentions.

Once again, stop leaving yourself open to these situations because you're afraid to say something. No one is forcing you to have a conversation and give someone the chance to read your voice inflections. One or two words, that's all.

A single oversized chip tossed in without any verbal declaration is a call ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS

I can't disagree with you more. Everyone may or may not know your intentions. It all depends on whether they can hear you or not. Which depends on your voice, how you speak, the background noise in the room, the ability to hear for those who are paying attention (I am hard of hearing), if anyone nearby has said something loudly and it seems as if that is what you said, etc.

I choose not to talk when I play in principal because its just another way for things to go wrong.

My actions when supported by the rules are safer IMO.

In this case I will sometimes say "Call" after I have thrown my single chip out there. When I do, it is usually because it is a large chip and I would rather not have the game slowed down by having to call a Floor over. Even though I am am in the right and will be vindicated.

I once saw a guy try to go all-in with words. This is what happened. He said "I am folding and I know you are going all in.". What he meant to say was "I am going all in and I know you are folding". He showed us the nuts as the pot was being shipped to the other guy. After we all stopped laughing, I decided that I would just push my chips forward when I wanted to act.

And that is what I do when I can do it unambiguously.

If I want to bet 200 and all I have is a 500 or higher then I say "200". I say it clearly. And I listen intently for the Dealer to repeat what I have said to the rest of the table.

When I raise, I almost never raise with a single chip. If want to raise to 500, I almost always raise to 525 or 475. And so on.

I see your point 100% I really do. I make it a point when playing to always have as many chips of smaller denominations as possible just so I can place my exact bet in.

I just think a lot of people do certain things to either look cool or just because they've seen others do it.

I think it's noble that you're trying to get across the sentiment of "protect your action and don't leave yourself open to bad decisions", but the rule is very clear.


I don't know what you're getting at with the 'trying to look cool' stuff, though.

[QUOTE
Scenario 1a
A bets 3000
B throws in a 2500 chip (not all-in).

This will be dependent on house rules. Should be a call and B owes another 500. But they may allow him to fold but may or may not allow him to take back his chip. Must cases they will not allow him to take back the chip and the 2500 chip must stay in the pot if he folds.[/QUOTE]

Are there really places that allow an in turn partial call to be pulled back unless there is a true gross misunderstanding. I would not rule putting in2500 of a 3000 bet is not a gross misunderstanding.

If there was a gross mis understanding and it is ruled as such, what room makes you leave in the 2500? Kind of defeats a gross misunderstanding. If that was my choice I would add the other 500 and hope for a really good flop or other luck.

And again if you undercall what room gives you the option of surrendering the undercall without completing? You can always fold but you will complete the call here even if you fold.

I believe you are misapplying a out of turn action rule. Imo a bad OOT action rule but one some places now have.

The rule is so clear a thread has been started s out ur being misunderstood and/or misapplied.

I believe many rooms this year, as of some of the TDA changes, say that once a smaller amount is placed in, if it's a misunderstanding, you can keep you hand and complete the full call, or you can forfeit what you put in the middle and fold for the rest, so your post isn't exactly accurate.

It happens. The rule is the rule. If it's misapplied, that sucks and the floor/dealer/whoever needs to do their job better. The OP was asking what the right rule is, and you have done nothing but say "Just say call". Instead of educating everyone about the rules, you're pushing this other option. I'm sorry if I don't understand where you're coming from here. If we all get on the same page about the rules, we don't have to do these unnecessary extra steps.

I believe the changed tDA rule involves OOT action.

In my post I excluded OOT action and gross misunderstandings. Neither of those were what was previously described. The 2500 of 3000 doesn't appear to be either but you claim you could fold and save the 500 left of the call. So again what room allows an in turn 85% call avoid completing the call? And which one does so without invoking OOT action rules or gross misunderstanding rules?

Where are 2500 tournament chips used?

icemanjmw OP is not asking about himself — he said as much in his first reply. He's talking about when other players do it.

The rule matters.

Notice near-unanimity (is that even a thing? lol) of the posters itt: It's a call. No arguement. No debate. You can always find an isolated case where a dealer/floor misapplied a rule (or an Op mis-reported to series of events ).