Lol, get over yourself. Um, you started a thread asking opinions about a situation. A very respected member of this forum (who works as a Floor in a casino, btw, and has ruled on situations like this hundreds of times) advises you that you're actions were partly to blame and gives VERY prudent advice how to avoid it in the future, and you tell him you don't want to hear it. Whatever . If you've "heard it a million times", why do you continue to do it? Sure, Villain pulled a fast one on you. But your actions opened the door for it.

Every week there's at least two new threads describing problems caused by prematurely tabling hands. FFS, it takes the Dealer <20 seconds to make the pot right and announce Showdown. As you so eloquently demonstrated, more is risked than gained by skipping this step.

Shoot, I might have to start saying "I'm maulin'" for info. Or maybe I can start saying "Eiffel" in hopes that the other player will muck.

It would be relevant to this discussion that the "bet line" at the Shoe is a player's cards - - so, did the forward motion push the chips beyond the vilain's cards?

Total angleshoot and the dealer sucked. By rule though it's not a call. Play at a place with better dealers.

I was clearly not asking for advice, because I don't need it. I wait until the action is clear to turn over my hand. When someone looks at me and says "I call" to me that is a very clear action, so I exposed my hand... just like every single one of you would have done, regardless of what you say.

When someone grabs for their chips, looks you in the eye and says "I call" you all turn your hand over (especially when you have the nuts) like I did. Don't bull**** and tell me you wait until he pushes his entire $1000 stack in the middle of the table and you wait for the dealer to confirm the action and tell you to expose your hand. If you are unsure, then yes of coarse you wait for a confirmation, but when you are sure, (like I was) you just expose the winning hand.

I was asking what the correct ruling should be. My opinion is that the floor should have either forced the angle-shooter to pay the bet, because he out of context said a word that sounds almost exactly like "I call" with the intention to get me to expose my hand, if he doesn't pay then he should be banned from the casino.

I was talking with Jason, the head of the Poker Room at Horseshoe Hammond yesterday and this is not true. The chips can pass the cards AND the player has to let go of them.

Anyway this doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing since we are discussion a verbal argument. I also learned that anytime the word call, check or raise is said while the action is on you, (even if its in the middle of a sentence, like "I really don't wanna call") then it is binding.

So if you say "I am not going to call" that is a call, because the word call was used.

Sounds like this is a place you shouldn't be playing. Nobody should be playing here until they find new management who understands the game. If "alcohol" is not binding while "I can't call" is binding, they just totally don't get it.

THIS. Thank God I'm not the only sane one here.

Nice false dichotomy.

KITN for you. The only "mistake" the dealer made was not hearing what Villain said. By golly, he/she couldn't hear one sentence? That clearly makes them a terrible dealer!

That's like saying Derek Jeter sucks because you saw him strike out once.

1. That's not what you said. You said you "thought" Villain said call. As somebody said earlier, "Don't think, know.". If I'm not 100% sure, then I ask the dealer. "Did he say call?". If they say yes, I flip up my hand. If they say no, I sit back in my chair and wait.

2. If that's true, then it's never enforced.

Most of the people ITT aren't necessarily saying it wasn't a bad ruling by the floor. They are saying it could have been avoiding by you acting so quick to turn over your hand.

Where I play, if the dealers hears "call" or sees the chips enter the pot, they say "That's a call." or "Showdown." or something and then I turn my hand over. I've been accused of slowrolling once or twice, and I just calmly say I didn't know if it was a call until the dealer said so. If they still think I'm an ass, whatever, I don't care. I'd rather have some random think I'm a slowroller because it took me three whole seconds to show my hand, then to lose out on a big bet because I was too anxious to flip over the nuts.

But this forum isn't just about YOU. Other, less experienced players may be reading this thread, see BoDiddley's advice, take it to heart, and be better players for it (imo).

And you are wrong, I (and PLENTY of other players), wait for the dealer to confirm action and call for showdown before tabling my hand. I learned to do that here on 2+2, after reading countless threads where players don't wait, table their hands immediatly, and chaos ensues.

This is your second thread in a month where you've come on crying about somebody pulling a fast one because you ASSumed action was clear and complete and tabled your hand before Dealer did their job. In both spots, if you'd chilled for two seconds for the dealer to say "Bet and call, show me a winner", there would be no discussion.

i think its bull**** and should have been ruled a call

Should the dealer have heard what he said?-----Maybe, however she/he did not. So at that point the Floor is not going to rule in your favor.
Was is an angleshoot? ----Maybe
Should you have protected your hand, your action, your $$$$ --- !00% yes.
and I'll make you a promise. You wont let it happen again will you?
Last thing: I hope the floor talks with dealer to assure all action is complete as well.

lol, ok so a guy says all in and starts to move his stack into the pot, you say call and flip your hand up, all in guy says "no, i said ball pin" and takes his chips back and mucks, floor rules it a fold, thats kosher? thats cheating and scamming point blank, not an angle shot, that is scamming and cheating

OP needs to take a break from poker for sure....

I can't understand why people are so short-sighted. You got hosed out of one pot by a guy who has done this before. People get scammed everyday, do they get upset about it sure... But eventually they come to realize their part in the scam and make changes to ensure they don't fall for it again. So you take a one-time hit to learn a valuable lesson that will pay for itself over and over again later. Especially since now there's nothing you can do about it. It's over... Done... finished....

Angler has revealed his true intentions here. He got away with one because he knew how to walk the line. Floor has already agreed to back him up in this case, why are you wasting energy on this.

When you are in pots with him, protect yourself more-so than if you are in pots with other normal players. Just like you might protect yourself more as you travel through a part of town known for muggings. Let your environment be your guide.

And 2 points on the whole saying 'alcohol' thing. Yes, you likely could in this card room play the same scummy angle as the guy who caught you, and yes likely it would be ruled in your favour (at least once in a while) but think about how you now picture that player. That's how people will picture you. If you are cool with that, then hey do what you have to do. My second point is, I can say whatever I want at a poker table (provided it doesn't go against rules of the room), so I can just randomly say words like alcohol, or fruitcake or douche-master 5000 if I want. So claiming intent from those who simply say a word are wrong imo. Is it a strong indicator of an angle, absolutely, so recognize that and don't allow allow yourself to get caught in it again.

Let this guys threads die, he has multiple threads here about fastrolling and being pissed he didnt clear up the action.


I remember my first trip to the Casino

I like this

Wow some of you must play at horrible card rooms. In Melbourne this would be instantly ruled a call and the player warned.

No. I immediately ask the dealer if the other player has called. I do this each and every time i bet and the chips have not been pushed into the pot by the card room's acceptable rule. In some rooms the betting line is official. in other rooms it is forward motion past the cards. In your room it is forward motion and release.

By acting like a victim you will ensure that you will continue being a victim.

Imagine for a second if every single person told you that yes the ruling was horrible and it should not have happened and would never happen in their card room. And you went to another card room and you bet and then you hear "all-in" and you immediately say "call" and flip your cards over and the other guy says "what are you doing I said 'I'm calling'" and pushes out your bet size and then mucks his hand. I guess in that post you can tell us that you have been a pro for 4 years and you don't need advice on fast rolling...

I am fortunate that my hearing is questionable so I am not so arrogant as to assume I am 100% correct in all situations. I have heard "all-in" and when I asked, the guy said he didn't say anything it was a guy at the next table right behind him. Same thing could happen with "call". When you hear "I call" and you have the nuts you are not protecting your hand. You are making excuses for your part in this. And you want to be saved by somebody else (the Floor or Dealer).

I am going to guess that this will keep happening to you until you realize that it is not enough to be 100% certain that you heard your opponent say "call".
Imagine for a second that he did say "alcohol". Then read what you said above. You were "sure" he said "call". And you were wrong. If he had said "alcohol" in the context of say "wow i've had too much ALCOHOL ..." as he was deciding what to do - and then you exposed your hand, would you be reviewing how you handle yourself in these spots?

I agree.

I'm in the camp that it was a bad ruling. I would expect at minimum a Floor to tell the guy to put his money in or never come back to the room. But how can you call yourself a pro and not know how to protect yourself in these types of situations?

no. wrong. the issue here is that the casino is scamming and cheating customers by allowing blatant cheating. the fact is, this isnt an angle shot. people dont "get scammed every day" like this. yes people do get angle shot all day, but this is far from being considered an angle shot, this is a casino cheating their customers and should not be tolerated.

Can you explain how the casino scammed anyone? A scam results in 1 party (the casino) getting something from the second party (the OP).

Why would any casino choose to do this? Casinos aren't in the habit of running off good paying customers... Unless you are saying the casino was in cahoots with the guy who folded, at which point, I'll start on your tin foil hat for you.

More importantly, the player who mucked, said 'alcohol', not call. This was accepted by the dealer and floor person. 'Alcohol' is not a valid action at the poker table, so what's the issue here? The word could have as easily been Tylenol, Kids in the Hall, brawl, fall, or any other word ending in 'all'. Doesn't mean it was a substitute for 'call'. Should we ban all talking at the poker table?

no the player who mucked said call, not alcohol, 2 players confirmed he said call, and yes the casino is scamming people by getting money from players (paying rake, time pots) and not running a fair game. obvious cheating resulting in loss of money from one player, letting the cheating stand, which results in loss of money is a ****ing scam. this is blatant cheating. anyone who doesnt agree that this is the worst damn floor call ever made in the history of poker is just trying to argue and wanting to play devils advocate just for the sake of being a douchebag

it pains me as a human being how low we have come as a race, i never feel bad about people getting angled, but this i feel is worse, i feel this is cheating and lying, and the fact that anyone could slightly argue that the OP did anything wrong and didnt get completely ****ed over by morons makes me lose so much faith in humanity

this is why everyone had two colts under the poker table back in the day

I'll bet I could find a floor ruling worse than this one just by spending a few minutes with the 'search' function. Can we all just agree that "bad floor decisions" and "blatant scamming and cheating" are not one and the same? The floor here is doing what he thinks is best for the game. He's misguided and wrong, as far as nearly all of us are concerned, but that doesn't mean he's actively trying to scam and fleece his room's patrons.