The Mirage is promoting a new game, Texas Hold 'em Plus. Two tables in the room have new felts designed specifically for this game.

Here's how Texas Hold 'em Plus is played according to a pamphlet given out by the Mirage.

1. The dealer will deal a regular hold 'em hand face down to each player (every player receives two playing cards).

2. The dealer calls an optiion to draw, and all players are requested to hold their cards until the option round is complete.

3. Options are taken in turn, beginning with the first player left of the big blind (or straddle).

4. Should a player elect to draw, one card must be discarded and the player will receive a replacement card for the option amount.

5. Players electing to draw, pay the option amount (the size of the small blind bet), place the wager on the discard and slide it towards the dealer.

6. The option amount may vary depending on size and type of game.

7. For players exercising their option, the dealer will collect each discard and wager in turn, and deliver the replacement card at that time.

8. The play of the hand continues under the regular rules of texas hold 'em.


The game ran at 3-6 limit stakes last weekend. The small blind/option amount in this game is $1. (All other limit games at the Mirage have a 1 chip, 2 chip blind structure).

I'll certainly give this game a try at some point. So, I'm interested in what a +EV discard strategy would be. Since it will cost a small blind to discard, I don't think it's comparable to pineapple.

Here's an example at one extreme to start a frame work for discussion. You're on the button. Seven players ahead of you decide to pay $1 to discard. That puts $11 in the pot including the blinds. You've got A6o. It seems to me that it has to be the correct EV play to pay the $1 to discard the 6 hoping to improve to a premium hand.

But, what if you have that same A6o UTG? Is it correct to pay to discard the 6? Or, should you not discard with the intention of folding when the discard process is complete?

What if you have 32o on the button with 7 people ahead of you paying to discard? Would it be correct to discard the 2 just for the chance of being dealt another 3? What if fewer people discard?

At what point does it become +EV to discard your lower card hoping to pair you bigger card? (or get a suited connector)

Don't think this game can be very profitable because of the amount of hands/hr you can play (I estimate 20, maybe even less)

But it seems like it would generate a lot of action. Pretty big pots relative to the rake. $4 max rake?

Yeah, if only a few people take the option, UTG will have decent odds to call pre-flop with a lot of hands.

You also don't know the relationship between your cards. You could toss the A out of A5 and draw a 5.

Given that most players will be drawing to big cards, at what point is it better to draw down versus up? A6 I would think you drop the 6. If you have 7 way option action in front of you, do you hold a Q or 9 out of Q9? I imagine that optioning a hand like 23 is going to be a disaster in a multiway pot.

this game soulds lame....PLUS?!? why not just call it holdem 1.0, or texas holdem 2.....

Or Take-Forever ******ed Texas Hold 'em?

or Pineapple Plus Tax

Oh god....online the game could possibly become interesting. But live....do we really need to cut the number of hands we play by 33% and add 3 minutes of sitting around time for every hand.

Slow game = slow rake. Either they're used to it bec of all the NL or they really need the business. I would've thought this would be way more popular in NL and I also wonder at how high a limit game people would be willing to play it.

I can't think of any scenario (without having unusual information) in which I would discard the higher card and keep the lower card. There's no chance I'd would discard an Ace ever.

You have A7os in the Big Blind. Everyone limps, and noone takes the option. I would take the option and drop the A.

With noone taking the option there are at least 2 aces out there, and both are probably bigger than yours. And with everyone else standing pat, you are probably not going to see too many big cards on the board. I would drop the Ace, hope for a connector, 1 gapper or 2 gapper, and flop a straight draw.

I like the concept, because adding a twist to a game we can play in our sleep makes the brain work and that is fun!

Howard, lets play this heads up 8/16 style next time at Casino AZ...I will crush you!

Hand reading would probably be pretty interesting in this game as almost everyone will be plussing when they have a baby ace and unless they mix some shania in they will be turning their hand faceup.

Obviously there will be other people who plus every time and others who plus with every ace or king in their hand but I think that an observant player who pays attention to swapping frequencies could have a decent edge in this game.

Very interesting

would it be profitable to play lower cards (2-8) considering most people will be holding higher cards (because they discard the lower ones) ??

It's hard enough to get an open seat at the MIrage NL low limits as it is, and they waste two of their tables in that tiny cramped room for this???

Best thing they could ever do is double, hell triple, the size of that room.

It should be hi/lo split also, imo.

This might be the slowest game ever.

FYP

clearly you haven't played HORSE with people who only know how to play hold'em

This game won't be around for long when the casino looks at the rake rate.

4/8 crazy pineapple 8/b full kill 8 drink minimum is clearly slower.

this game sounds stupid fun.

Sounds way too slow to me. But on the other hand, it sounds like gigantic mistakes could be made by your opponents (or many many small mistakes). So it could balance.

Strategy-wise, I think you'd be best off almost never buying a new card. It's true you have good odds because of the higher pot, but that's proportional to the strength of hands out there (which goes up the bigger the pot gets). I think you're far better simply waiting for good cards and then winning bigger pots with them. You're letting everyone else in the game fund it.

It seems you can never "draw" profitably, because the odds of hitting a card you like are so high. Maybe draw to an ace in late position? Drawing to hit a pocket pair can't be right unless you're in late position and the pot is huge.

Seems to me that simply letting everyone else at the table fund this thing would be the most +EV strategy, then just play your good cards that you got for free.

I played this earlier tonight and dropped $100 in 1.5 hours.

The game was very loose and had lots of action. I'd say an average of four players per hand paid the $1 to discard. The pots were huge with about seven players seeing the flop even when it was raised pre-flop.

I discarded looser than was probably correct just to see more flops. I was always discarding when I had an Ace and a weak kicker. I discarded weak kickers of Kings and Queens in middle and late position. My loosest discard was in my last hand UTG when I kept a Jack (discarded a 4) just for a chance to play the hand. I actually got a suited 9 and limped.

I never paired up on my discards. But, I caught three Aces when drawing to a King, Queen, and Queen.

The discarding process didn't slow the game down much. The game was slowed down far more by multiple players going to the river on every hand.

I played this game for 6.5 hours on a Thursday night last week. Made $240 profit.

The game is not slow if you have a smart dealer who knows the most efficient way to run the game. True, the game is new to all their dealers, so the rate of play depended on who was in the box. The fastest way to get through the discard round is for the player to put a dollar chip on top of his discard, push it toward the dealer, and the dealer replacing his card immediately while pulling in the dollar and the discard. Dealers who waited until the entire discard round was over to hand out new hole cards were much slower. The end result is a what looks like a pot of antes. It's great for creating action, committing players to a pot, pot odds, and even more friendly grumbling from players.

We had a blast playing the game, and it certainly made it a higher stakes game than the 3/6 name implies. I was dealt Ace-rag and drew to A-A FIVE TIMES! Even more unbelievable is that I won all five pots. The fun part of the game is that you never know if you should draw or not. Many times I drew a worse hole card and ended up winning. It's most advantageous in the blinds. For example, I was dealt K-9 in the big blind, paid a dollar to exchange the 9 and drew a 2. Flop came 2-2-10. So you never know...

The good dealers got out 20 hands plus, with every pot being capped at $4 rake. The room was only about half full, so the house made an extra $80/half hour for 6.5 hours. I don't think the game hurts the card room at all. This is definitely a great alternative to the same old boring low-limit holdem and I think everyone should try it out.