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My bad or bad dealer? My bad or bad dealer?

02-25-2012 , 10:29 PM
Game is LO/8, 2-5 blinds. Table is almost all regs. There is a missed blind two to my right. Guy with missed blind (Mulletguy) comes back and posts 7 as it is about to be my big blind. Small blind (Sunglasses at limit game guy, SALGG) doesn't post, neither do I, and dealer deals without saying anything.

SALGG starts off by raising to 10, I fold. It folds around to Mulletguy, and now is when everyone knows that this is fubar. Dealer tells me I have to post my BB although I no longer have cards. I'm pretty irate but throw in my 5 because I think I should have posted (my bad), although SALGG also should have posted, and I got a bit confused because of the way the action went.

So should I have called the floor? Dealer was clearly not controlling the table properly (getting people to post blinds and controlling whose turn it is to act), which is really his only job. Would floor have called a misdeal? My only consolation is that this will ultimately work out to be a +EV move for me, 'cause that particular dealer will never ever get another tip from me.
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02-25-2012 , 10:43 PM
Not tipping a dealer forever because of 1 mistake, You must be a treat to have at the table
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02-25-2012 , 10:47 PM
I can't even tell what happened from your description. But it appears that before there was any action you thought something was wrong ..... But you didn;t raise the issue and you let action occur.

This leads me to beleive that both you and the dealer made mistakes.
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02-25-2012 , 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
I can't even tell what happened from your description. But it appears that before there was any action you thought something was wrong ..... But you didn;t raise the issue and you let action occur.

This leads me to beleive that both you and the dealer made mistakes.
I didn't realize something was wrong immediately, I got confused because of Mulletguy posting and then SALGG not posting his SB but leading the action out of turn, as though he was UTG. I didn't realize something was amiss until it got to Mulletguy on the button.
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02-25-2012 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantph
I didn't realize something was wrong immediately, I got confused because of Mulletguy posting and then SALGG not posting his SB but leading the action out of turn, as though he was UTG. I didn't realize something was amiss until it got to Mulletguy on the button.
Are you brand new to poker and thought that if someone posts missed blinds that the players to the left of the button don't have to post their blinds? Have you never seen a missed blind situation before?

Because otherwise it really appears that you tried to get away with not posting your blinds and getting a free hand. Then you got caught and want to blame the dealer.

Unless your that new to poker, it seems like your fault as much as the dealer.
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02-25-2012 , 11:46 PM
50/50 split imo. So you shouldn't really not tip the dealer forever unless he was a dick about it. If you really feel the need to stiff him/her some amount just don't tip two pots or something.

This is the kind of thing you need to learn to not let affect you if you are going to play live poker. Because stupid stuff like this happens routinely and if you let it bother you you're going to be tilted a lot and just generally not have much fun.

And please please please please do not slow the game down and call the floor. Acting nitty like that is ruining your image and refocusing the fish that this game is about money not having fun and gambling. Although if you start talking about calling the floor and you were at my table I would just get annoyed and pay your $5, so I guess it could work out in your favor.
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02-25-2012 , 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantph
I didn't realize something was wrong immediately, I got confused because of Mulletguy posting and then SALGG not posting his SB but leading the action out of turn, as though he was UTG. I didn't realize something was amiss until it got to Mulletguy on the button.
A player with a missed blind posts and that confuses you?

Is the SB the first player to the left of the button? If so, why wouldn't he open the action? Or was it because he didn't post the SB? Why didn't you post the BB if you knew you were the BB? That seems confusing to me. If you felt confused at that point, why not say something then? Seems the best time to speak up.

Did the dealer screw up? maybe, but the scenario is still unclear.

It seems from your post that appearances are important to you. Did it occur to you that the guy wears sunglasses because he is light sensitive? I have a dealer buddy who has to wear prescription sunglasses when he deals do to light sensitivity.

Quote:
Dealer was clearly not controlling the table properly (getting people to post blinds and controlling whose turn it is to act), which is really his only job.
Do you really believe the above? Really?

If you had called the floor, in a timely manner, that would have been something positive that could have corrected the mistakes or prevented them from re occurring.
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02-25-2012 , 11:49 PM
The wording is confusing, but it sounds like Mulletguy is buying the button. Therefore, he is the only one posting blinds this hand. The next hand he'll be the button and you'll be BB.
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02-25-2012 , 11:55 PM
I should have also mentioned that I do feel the dealer also screwed up by missing this. I just get tilted when people say they will never tip a dealer again for a mistake, especially when the player made the same mistake.

Sort of like if you table your hand and say "one pair" not realizing you have a 4card flush, but then get irate at the dealer if he doesn't catch your mistake as well.
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02-26-2012 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak3nnay0
The wording is confusing, but it sounds like Mulletguy is buying the button. Therefore, he is the only one posting blinds this hand. The next hand he'll be the button and you'll be BB.
This would only apply if "Mulletguy" was in the SB. OP is the BB, SB is not "mulletguy" since he didn't post anything and the button isn't mulletguy, he has to be in another seat.
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02-26-2012 , 12:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantph
(my bad)

I got a bit confused

that particular dealer will never ever get another tip from me.
Sounds like you screwed up and you are blaming the dealer for not bailing you out (which admittedly they are supposed to try to do in this situation). If you really think the dealer should be held responsible for not correcting you, not tipping him for your next five winning hands to represent the $5 BB lost (assuming you hand was good enough to defend, but not cold call with) is more than sufficient punishment. Any more withholding of tips (assuming there are no other issues with this dealer) would make you a douche.
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02-26-2012 , 01:27 AM
You can't buy the button and be the button the same hand. You have to post and then be the button next if your buying it. So something was screwed up to begin with by having this guy post $7 on the button. Chalk that one to the dealer, also that he didn't make sure the SB and BB were posted before dealing was his fault also.

It was your fault because you didn't post your blinds, pay attention, see where the button is and if its your turn to post. And if you see something screwed up like a guy posting $7 on the button then say something.
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02-26-2012 , 03:09 AM
I don't think OP ever said where the button was. I'm not sure how this is anything other than buying the button. If mullet guy is two to the OPs right he cannot be the button he has to be posting both blinds in the SB position or buying the button. If mullet guy is not SB then the button would be between mullet guy ang sunglasses guy.
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02-26-2012 , 04:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantph
There is a missed blind two to my right.
Guy with missed blind comes back and posts 7 as it is about to be my big blind.
Small blind doesn't post, neither do I, .
Sounds llike a standard buy the button to me.
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02-26-2012 , 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantph
Game is LO/8, 2-5 blinds. Table is almost all regs. There is a missed blind two to my right. Guy with missed blind (Mulletguy) comes back and posts 7 as it is about to be my big blind. Small blind (Sunglasses at limit game guy, SALGG) doesn't post, neither do I, and dealer deals without saying anything.

SALGG starts off by raising to 10, I fold. It folds around to Mulletguy, and now is when everyone knows that this is fubar. Dealer tells me I have to post my BB although I no longer have cards. I'm pretty irate but throw in my 5 because I think I should have posted (my bad), although SALGG also should have posted, and I got a bit confused because of the way the action went.

So should I have called the floor? Dealer was clearly not controlling the table properly (getting people to post blinds and controlling whose turn it is to act), which is really his only job. Would floor have called a misdeal? My only consolation is that this will ultimately work out to be a +EV move for me, 'cause that particular dealer will never ever get another tip from me.
OK if you are supposed to be big blind the button would be two positions to your right which is where u stated the missed blind button was.
You can not buy the button on the button, the button is bought between the small blind and the button.
So your post is not clear as to what is going on.

With that said,
as a dealer do you really want me to wait until all players have posted both the small and big blinds before i start to deal EVERY HAND?

You want to discuss EV?
if i waited until all blinds are posted before a card is in the air every hand your EV would hit rock bottom because it would slow the game to a halt !
Be a little more clear in your original post but it sounds to me likeyou knew it was your big blind as stated above, you got a bad hand in your big blind, and are just being a douche trying to get out of paying it.
The dealer is trying to deal a fast game which is +EV for winning players!
Where I work unless the blind situation was wrong in your description, which i beleive it is, you would be be forced to put your blind in, PAY ATTENTION to the action.
and tip the dealer and extra buck for trying to speed up the game and increase your EV
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02-26-2012 , 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamraise
Sounds llike a standard buy the button to me.
Yeah, none of this makes sense to me.
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02-26-2012 , 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootpool
OK if you are supposed to be big blind the button would be two positions to your right
No, he said two to his right was a missed blind which would make the button three to his right.
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02-26-2012 , 09:02 AM
Yeah the only way I can read this that makes any sort of sence is that OP is supposed to be the BB - ie the guy to his immediate right was BB last hand. So we have B, empty seat, sunglasses, OP and then mullet comes back, buys the button and everything is proceeding as it should until someone cries foul and dealer wants OP to post.

Best guess this involves even more that the OP didn't mention or notice like some moved the B during the hand or mullet guy bought the B in a room that doesn't allow it.
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02-26-2012 , 10:33 AM
The only thing I can think is that the player isn't buying the button, but is instead posting between the button and the SB (with the button moving to the SB the next hand, and the poster getting the CO). My understanding is that this is only for new players, but I've only seen it in effect once, and I didn't get the full story on its limitations.
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02-26-2012 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dealer-Guy
This would only apply if "Mulletguy" was in the SB. OP is the BB, SB is not "mulletguy" since he didn't post anything and the button isn't mulletguy, he has to be in another seat.
But didn't OP say that the player was two seats to his right. This sounds like he is between the Button and the blind ... the position where a player can Buy the button (if the room allows that)
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02-26-2012 , 11:20 AM
I think all the argument about what may have been happening in this situation may be an indication that the dealer did in fact make a mistake by not clarifying what was going on with the blinds and such. If an experienced group of dealers/players can't figure it out then how can players be expected to figure it out in real time.

Of course the other source of confusion may be the wording of the OP. But I'll stick to my interpretation. :P
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02-26-2012 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack492505
I think all the argument about what may have been happening in this situation may be an indication that the dealer did in fact make a mistake by not clarifying what was going on with the blinds and such. If an experienced group of dealers/players can't figure it out then how can players be expected to figure it out in real time.

Of course the other source of confusion may be the wording of the OP. But I'll stick to my interpretation. :P
Actually I'm willing to bet that most of us would have a better chance of knowing what was going on if we actually saw it happening then by trying to decipher the OP
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02-26-2012 , 11:28 AM
Well trying to determine anything from 2nd hand, incomplete and poorly worded information is problematic but yeah there's a good chance the dealer messed up somewhere along the line.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've only seen two possibilites for a player returning in between the B and SB.
- He can buy the button, be the only one who posts blinds and receive the B on the next hand
- He has to sit out a hand and post both blinds after the B has passed.

I know there's enough rule variation that there is likely some room out there that does something different but this is all I've ever seen.
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02-26-2012 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap
The only thing I can think is that the player isn't buying the button, but is instead posting between the button and the SB (with the button moving to the SB the next hand, and the poster getting the CO). My understanding is that this is only for new players, but I've only seen it in effect once, and I didn't get the full story on its limitations.
This is a very rare rule, and yes, it only applies to new players. I feel like we're all bickering for no reason and OP needs to come back to clarify the situation.
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02-26-2012 , 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
Actually I'm willing to bet that most of us would have a better chance of knowing what was going on if we actually saw it happening then by trying to decipher the OP
That's probably true. But if it needs any deciphering shouldn't the dealer be doing that? The fact that a bunch of dealers that spend a lot of time discussing poker rules/procedure could figure it out doesn't mean its self-evident whats going on.
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