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02-08-2022 , 02:00 AM

Robot9999

centurion

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 182

Player pays his big blind and then misses small blind. He comes in after the button.
Is the small blind dead or live?

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02-08-2022 , 02:02 AM

arburns7487

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 128

Dead small posted from the cutoff...

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk

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02-08-2022 , 03:57 AM

checkraisdraw

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5,384

There’s absolutely no way to answer this question without knowing the casino rules.

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02-08-2022 , 10:09 AM

Reducto

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,864

In most rooms I've seen it's dead.

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02-08-2022 , 11:26 AM

Quadstriker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,367

Dead everywhere I've played or worked.

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02-08-2022 , 12:08 PM

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 13,425

It's dead, it's only live if he was moving seats out of the sb and didn't miss a hand

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02-08-2022 , 12:40 PM

madlex

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

There’s absolutely no way to answer this question without knowing the casino rules.

Do you know of any major card rooms where it wouldn't be dead?

In places where it is live, does that mean a missed BB is live too? Wouldn't that be a pretty big incentive to sit out your blinds?

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02-08-2022 , 02:54 PM

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 4,362

I don’t recall ever seeing or playing where a posted bb isn’t live. Is there such a thing as posting a dead bb?

As to being annadvantage. It might seem so at first but:
1. You are giving up your button every time you skip
2. You are playing 30%+ fewer hands for same blinds paid
3. In the very loose passive low stakes games, you can see free flops in the bb. If you flop a monster you can win a monster pots. Heck, some tables have enough really bad loose passive players who refuse to let go that sometimes playing the bb is ev+.

Last edited by Fore; 02-08-2022 at 03:08 PM.

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02-08-2022 , 04:51 PM

Reducto

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,864

Quote:

Originally Posted by madlex

Do you know of any major card rooms where it wouldn't be dead?

In places where it is live, does that mean a missed BB is live too? Wouldn't that be a pretty big incentive to sit out your blinds?

Crown Casino in Melbourne Australia. It was live and you could post it on the button. I witnessed a lot of people pretend to have important phone calls to make when it was their small blind as to not make it obvious they were skipping the hand.

Australia is known for having weird rules, though. I can't think of any in the US.

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02-08-2022 , 10:24 PM

#10

checkraisdraw

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5,384

Quote:

Originally Posted by madlex

Do you know of any major card rooms where it wouldn't be dead?

In places where it is live, does that mean a missed BB is live too? Wouldn't that be a pretty big incentive to sit out your blinds?

In the room I worked at and most of LA if you miss a sb you miss both blinds. And yeah, the sb you missed would be posted as a dead sb, along with one bb (that you did not miss but they are making you pay).

However what if he is playing in some random casino in the middle of argentina… do you have any insight as to the preferred rules in argentina?

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02-09-2022 , 01:08 AM

#11

bolt2112

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 11,026

I've dealt in 6 rooms. The missed small blind is dead in 5 of them.

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02-11-2022 , 09:00 PM

#12

Robot9999

centurion

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 182

The floorman ruled it to be a dead small blind. This seems to be the ruling in most rooms.

The player claimed that Robert's Rules of Poker says that in this scenario the small blind would be live.

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02-11-2022 , 09:08 PM

#13

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,563

He is correct, that is what RRoP says, but afaik no (well, few) rooms actually play it that way.

RRoP says (at least I think this is the last version of RRoP, the site I used to use seems to be dead now):

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A player who misses any or all blinds can resume play by either posting all the blinds
missed or waiting for the big blind. If you choose to post the total amount of the blinds, an
amount up to the size of the minimum opening bet is live. The remainder is taken by the
dealer to the center of the pot and is not part of your bet. When it is your next turn to act,
you have the option to raise.

This is one of the things TDA rules don't cover, because you can't miss your blind in a tourney.

Last edited by dinesh; 02-11-2022 at 09:23 PM.

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02-14-2022 , 02:07 AM

#14

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 23,143

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

I don't remember ever seeing someone have to post a BB when they only missed the SB, and I have played in dozens of places, including every room in LA. I guess it is possible I didn't notice since people rarely miss the SB, but this would be a terrible rule regardless.

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02-14-2022 , 05:16 PM

#15

checkraisdraw

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5,384

That is the rule in every LA casino I’ve played at. Miss one you miss both. Call them up if you don’t believe me.

You’ll notice next time you play that they don’t have a “missed small blind” or a “missed big blind” button, just a missed blind button.

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02-15-2022 , 12:13 AM

#16

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 4,362

I don’t doubt your position at all. I h@ve never played in Cali so I have zero experience. But your “button evidence” itself is not convincing as I have seen casinos that do not have this odd rule but also use missed blind buttons. Not saying they should or that it isn’t poor to do so but they do.

So I don’t doubt the position but meh on the evidence.

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02-15-2022 , 03:05 AM

#17

checkraisdraw

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5,384

Well I also dealt in an LA casino for 3 years and have played in them for 7 so I offer that up as evidence too.

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02-15-2022 , 08:04 AM

#18

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 23,143

Huh, OK, I'll take your word on that one. It's still a terrible rule though.

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02-15-2022 , 09:50 AM

#19

answer20

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 11,171

Missed small is dead in the Midwest, except for maybe a few charity rooms or home games where they bend a bit.

I've even had discussions where a Player who misses a small 'can' come back OTB as long as they straddle and post a dead small. Obviously if this became a pattern among this (or many) Players the room would tidy things up in a hurry. Again, small rooms or home games where a Player might take a phone call or be getting a drink or food and a hand ends quickly or the Dealer doesn't see the Player in close proximity.

Larger rooms need tighter reins, but I also like to give the Dealer some discretion at getting a Player back into the game if possible. GL

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