Is it possible to show a long term profit at 2/4 live limit hold'em?

I'd often heard that you should avoid 2/4 live and only play 4/8 or 3/6 at the minumum, since at 2/4 the rake makes up such a large portion of the pot.

I played NL on-line for a while, but I played limit for a year before that. There really isn't anywhere close for me to play NL live, but I can play 2/4 locally (Rockingham Park, Salem NH).

I was wondering if I should cash out some of my NL roll and try live limit for a while. What do you guys say?

If the players are bad enough, they'll be giving up enough equity that $2 "extra" in rake per pot is nothing. You can win at the this game, but don't expect to make the mortgage payment from it.

(Why $2 extra? Few people dispute that $4/8 is beatable, and opinion is probably mixed about $3/6. If rake were the same percentage at $2/4 as $4/8, a $4 max + $1 tip would become $2 max + 50c tip. Likewise, $4+$1 at $3/6 would become $2.67 + $0.67.)

2/4 limit live is nigh unbeatable with rake+tips. you can certainly have a great night and win $800, but in the long run i doubt even the best player would be able to beat it without fantastic table selection.

I think that if someone wants to play 2-4 limit live then move up quickly to NL or a higher limit.

Someone can be a longterm winner at 2-4 limit but why would anyone want to? A player could use the same relitive buy-in and play 1-2 nl instead, and I don't want to hear any nonsense of needing 300 big bets (1200) in 2/4 limt.

If I played limit still I would play 4-8 with that same roll or even better play 1-2 NL. Live players are so dumb a good tight player should be fine.

Packard, IIRC the stakes are very limited at those NH racetracks. They may not have any limit games higher than 2.

So I guess 2-4 limit is the only live game that the OP can play live.

I would play online then. Each gallon of gas is the same cost one big bet

That is very wrong.

See my 1000 hours at live 2/4 thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ad.php?t=86468

Brief Summary: At best, you might be able to cover the cost of your food at the table. Maybe.

And you will never, ever, ever (ever) win $800 in one night at live 2/4 unless you are including in those winning a $500 prop bet with your neighbour.

GcluelessnoobG

I suggest that you play 4 8 limit or higher.. 1 2 nl.. is ok... .but depending on the cap matters alot.. see if u have a 1 200 dollar cap.. i mean.. basically if u raise 25 preflop.. three callers.. people are gonna put their money in.. espically on friday and sat night.. so big money to be made.. i see stacks after three hourse.. 750 1000 in 12.. on friday nights.. even on the 48 tables i see stacks.. but its all on what you think you are comfortable with as a player as well..

IT all depends on you. I mean.. do you feel comfortable at those limits if not.. I suggest limit.. 4 8 because.. it at least u wont lose your whole roll on bad plays.. u also just need to be confident and know your reads.. Read your players.. and base your decison process on them.. think ahead.. well If you do something he probably thinks like that too.. or does he think outside the box?

It sounds like to me that u should stick to 3 6 limit .. maybe 1 2.. but stacks go by bye really quick.. cause its only 200 dollars.. which aint **** to alot of people.. espcially people at the casino..

I won $1200 playing 3/6 limit in one [12 hour] session. It's possible.

That's like 200 BB in one live session? And I'm assuming no badbeat jackpots? You were obviously running hotter than the sun.

Bottom line: Even if it is possible, it is highly, highly (highly) unlikely. OP is much more likely to win/lose in the neighbourhood of $50-$150 a night averaging out to around a cool (and respectable) $2.00 per hour.

GcluelessnoobG

2/4 - 4/8 are all still beatable live. GG has the best records @ 2/4 in terms of hrs. and wins. My biggest win in one session was 700+ @ 3/6 in 5 hrs. But that is once in a year. 90% of my sessions are + or - less than 300. Over 50% finish + or - less than 100.

So it is beatable and can be a good training ground for higher limits. I now only play 2/4 if I am waiting for something else to open. And it can also be a place to test drive new ideas cheaply, and a place to gamble without $ pressure. If you aren't after those things, go higher ASAP, roll permitting.

you got heads up with no cap on reraises with a guy with a big stack?

They get massive rake in the 2/4s in Vegas. $4 on $40. They take 1 at 10, 1 at 20, 1 at 30, 1 at 40. But in alot of those places when you jump up to 4/8 they take 1 at 20, 1 at 40, 1 at 60, 1 at 80. Much better deal.

That's not all that crazy. I won $600 once in 3 hours at 3/6. The bulk of it was in 6 or 7 pots.

Nope, nothing like that. It was a fairly loose table (as most live low limit tables are). I did run insanely good though for about 2 hours during the stretch.

edit: I just remembered during that session I tried to take $10 off the table (keep in mind i had about 1500 on the table near the end) to go buy a sandwich and someone cried "going south" (he was mostly pissed off because I was running good). The floor ruled that I couldn't take money off the table, even in limit. Hadn't thought about that in awhile, but it was pretty interesting.

OP, the definitive answer on whether you can make money at 2/4: it depends on your opponents

in an AC 2/4 game I estimate I could make 2-3 bb/hr. I don't know about your local game, but if its the only game available there is a distinct possibility a greater percentage of the players know they're supposed to fold once in awhile. This obviously cuts into profits.

I think the main question is, why would you want to grind 2/4 live? It's probably beatable, but you're certainly not going to make much money and the variance will be ridiculous. I'd suggest sticking to online if your bankroll is that small or there are no other live games in your area. Or better yet, work a wage slave job and build up a suitable bankroll for larger games. You will make less than minimum wage at live 2/4; you'd really just be wasting your time. And if you can beat 2/4 over the long haul, you can almost certainly beat 3/6 & 4/8. 6/12 or so there is a more noticeable leap in the quality of play.

When I used to do it at Foxwoods, I played quite a bit at online micros to. But mostly (1) I really enjoyed the live game more, still do (2) I wanted practice in the live game because that's what I was trying to move up to (3) My numbers indicated that I was doing just fine at it (4) I was still a beginner and needed to build up confidence that I could beat $4/8 long term.

I had a good salary so that wasn't at issue. But I very much didn't want to allocate $500 a month or whatever to gamble at poker and play games I didn't know I could beat.

Then by a year into my adventure (2005) NL had become so profitable that I realized I was a donkey for not learning it, so I ground up a bankroll short-stacking the FW $1-2 instead.

Maybe, but your EV is higher working for McDonald's -- and the risk is lower.


q/q

A few Casinos in Las Vegas have a single $2 dollar blind structure at 2/4. I'm sure by saving $1 every orbit at a 2/4 game you would greatly increase your win rate.

I just adore answers like this because they so thoroughly miss the point of why anyone would play $2/4.

Your EV is higher becoming a lawyer or investment banker than playing mid-stakes, too, as long as you incorrectly measure EV in cash rather than utility.

Do they ever run limit games in Niagara?

I remember my uncle telling me he played 2/4 at Fallsview but I was there this week and both Casino Niagara and Fallsview only ran NL games.

A bunch of you guys seem to miss that 2/4 is the only live game I have access to, Rockingham Park, Salem NH.

Why are you even considering this?

If you just want to be cash positive at poker, I'm almost certain you can beat 2/4 LHE for some miniscule number.

If you want to be break even over your cost of transportation and other expenses, I'd say probably not unless you live very close to the venue.

If your goal is just to enjoy live poker, why do you care? You're not going to get killed playing 2/4 unless you get completely frustrated by the donkeydom of your opponents.

I found that when I started playing live poker that I was making money regardless of whether I won or lost. I only played on nights where I would have gone out and spent money anyway. When I lost it was generally less than what I would have spent going out. When I won, it was just gravy.