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Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Insisting on rules for who shows hands first

08-30-2017 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izen
nothing wrong with enforcing the rules
So I assume every time a player doesn't know the action and throws some chips in the pot, you make them stay in rather than allowing the player to take it back if nobody has acted?

Yes, there is in fact often something wrong with enforcing the rules. Just like there's something wrong with giving a speeding ticket to a guy racing his wife to the hospital.
Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Quote
08-30-2017 , 01:56 PM
If you ever find yourself wanting/needing to get invited to a private/non-casino game where some of these "I missed" guys play, don't be surprised when they say "Nope, F that guy"

I've played in many an "underground" game full of bookies, "dealers" and degens of all sorts. Even though I play much tighter than they do I still am welcome because I'm not a rules nit, I always fastroll and I'm a good sport. I can't tell you how many young, rules obsessed kids come once.... and only once. "Hey Monty, how come I don't get texts anymore about so and so's game?" It's sad they don't know why....
Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Quote
08-31-2017 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyBurns
If you ever find yourself wanting/needing to get invited to a private/non-casino game where some of these "I missed" guys play, don't be surprised when they say "Nope, F that guy"

I've played in many an "underground" game full of bookies, "dealers" and degens of all sorts. Even though I play much tighter than they do I still am welcome because I'm not a rules nit, I always fastroll and I'm a good sport. I can't tell you how many young, rules obsessed kids come once.... and only once. "Hey Monty, how come I don't get texts anymore about so and so's game?" It's sad they don't know why....
Even aside from getting invites to private games, if you ever want to play those juicy "ahh **** it lets play HUHU until i get felted or even" games or "fine lets start it 3 handed until Sal Mann the Megafish gets here" games, your reputation as a fun person is going to tip the scales in favor of playing an EV- game with you vs sitting on the sidelines playing Candy Crush or reading Cardplayer magazine.
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08-31-2017 , 06:38 PM
What if you play Candy Crush in a three-handed game?
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09-02-2017 , 08:09 PM
If they paid to see my hand, I show. I expect the same.
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09-02-2017 , 09:46 PM


JRB and Hellmuth got into a debate about this on PAD.
Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Quote
09-03-2017 , 01:58 AM
There is a reg at my casino that does this to the extreme and gets accused of slow rolling almost every time i have played a session at his table. His MO is to always wait for all players in front of him to muck or show at showdown unless a shown hand can beat him.
Example:
4 people in at river. UTG bets, 3 calls including V on button. UTG will say something like AQ and immediately flip his hand. Next 2 players will kinda nod their head, look at their hole cards one last time, tap the table, then muck, (Standard showdown behavior), after these other 2 muck and only then, V will then flip his hand and say Two Pair for example. This always leads to UTG saying "nice slowroll" or something to that nature, and guy always says "I was just waiting for my turn" and an argument begins. If UTG's hand beats V, he insta mucks out of turn.

Doesn't bother me cause I know it's coming, so if I'm the UTG player and he is in the hand and doesn't insta muck when I show, i like to taunt him a bit, "Crap, what you got this time Bob? Set? straight?" I've played with him enough to know that he's got me beat so I don't get angry.

On more than 1 occasion I have seen people leave the table after he does this claiming they don't want to play with him.

He does it in big and small pots.
Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Quote
09-03-2017 , 02:58 AM
^ Personally in a multiway showdown such as the one just mentioned, I also wait my turn to show, but if I can beat the first hand shown I say "I can beat that" so I don't slow roll him if I am best. Surprisingly the other player(s) inbetween are often slow about mucking their hands though. It's really those players who are causing the problems more than the guy accused of slowrolling. Why are they doing all of the nodding and rechecking their hole cards instead of just mucking??
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09-03-2017 , 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey913
Sure...

Loose guy was calling a lot of my PFRs and we weren't getting to showdown much (he was winning the majority of hands)... Then this hand happened.

Hero raises UTG w/ KK to $12. 3 callers, including V OTB. Flop ($45) JJ9 rainbow, checks to V, V bets $15, I call, rest fold. Turn ($75) JJ99, I check, He bets $35, I call. River ($145) JJ99A, I check, He bets $115 (in a very strong means weak way). I insta-call. He says "I missed." I insist on seeing his cards for 2 reasons.

(1) I want to know just how wide he is calling my PFRs
(2) I want to know if he was semi-bluffing with a missed draw, or was just barrelling away

He gets upset, but eventually tables 46o. That taught me he was likely calling me super wide and had no problem naked bluffing without draws.

About 2 hours later, I was heads up OOP against him, and felt comfortable getting to showdown with 66 on a 3778T run out. If instead he had previously shown QTs (instead of 46o) for a better hand pre-flop and some equity post-flop I probably would have released 66 on the turn, if not on the river.
I think if you are confident you won the hand before they say anything, I would show almost instantly (like lets say in the JJ99A hand you had AA, and he went all in on river and you called, you should just flip it over, despite the fact you main gain info about him based on if he had a J, 9, A, QT, or nothing). I do think slowrolling is super noob and something which is primarily done by break even thinkhard MUBS regs.

However, I wouldnt flip over a meh hand like KK in the hand you described just because they say "i missed" or whatever. I dont trust their word, and im not slowrolling.
Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Quote
09-03-2017 , 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
^ Personally in a multiway showdown such as the one just mentioned, I also wait my turn to show, but if I can beat the first hand shown I say "I can beat that" so I don't slow roll him if I am best. Surprisingly the other player(s) inbetween are often slow about mucking their hands though.
They're probably confused as to why you have a goddamn monster and chose to be the second overcaller rather than the last aggressor.
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09-03-2017 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
They're probably confused as to why you have a goddamn monster and chose to be the second overcaller rather than the last aggressor.
I am raising with anything close to a monster. This happens in cases where the first better turned over something like Jack high, or else the river was checked through. And I'm only good about half the times this happens.
Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Quote
09-08-2017 , 06:02 AM
If you call, you get to see their hand, if they don't want to show it then I can't see how they can also make you show your hand.

A) You call, they show, you beat it and show yours
B) You call, they show, you can't beat it, you muck
C) You call, they said you are good, they muck and you muck.

I don't neccesarily want to see your hand, but if you get called and say you are good, you should let me win it without showing either

Last edited by SleepySun; 09-08-2017 at 06:12 AM.
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09-08-2017 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
^ Personally in a multiway showdown such as the one just mentioned, I also wait my turn to show, but if I can beat the first hand shown I say "I can beat that" so I don't slow roll him if I am best. Surprisingly the other player(s) inbetween are often slow about mucking their hands though. It's really those players who are causing the problems more than the guy accused of slowrolling. Why are they doing all of the nodding and rechecking their hole cards instead of just mucking??
Agreed. I don't think players can blame somebody for waiting their turn to table their hand. That's far away from a slowroll in my opinion.
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09-08-2017 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub24
If they paid to see my hand, I show. I expect the same.
When I call, it's not to see your hand. It's to try to win the pot.

If you call to see my hand, fine. Let's do the following-- you get to call, you automatically lose the pot, but you get to see my hand every time. Is that OK with you?
Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Quote
09-08-2017 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
^ Personally in a multiway showdown such as the one just mentioned, I also wait my turn to show, but if I can beat the first hand shown I say "I can beat that" so I don't slow roll him if I am best. Surprisingly the other player(s) inbetween are often slow about mucking their hands though. It's really those players who are causing the problems more than the guy accused of slowrolling. Why are they doing all of the nodding and rechecking their hole cards instead of just mucking??
Both of them are causing the problem.

Obviously, a lot of players want to give their hand a "card funeral" which is silly. Just figure out if you have something you want to table and move on.

But the player at the end who has 2 pair simply should show first. When I am in that situation I literally say "I check I have 2 pair" and flip it. If I check behind with queen high, I might wait a bit but even then if people are hesitating I will say "I have queen high, anyone got that beat?".
Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Quote
09-08-2017 , 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I am raising with anything close to a monster. This happens in cases where the first better turned over something like Jack high, or else the river was checked through. And I'm only good about half the times this happens.
Being good half the time in a 4-way pot is monster.
Insisting on rules for who shows hands first Quote
09-10-2017 , 04:49 AM
In my room, if it goes check-check on the river, it's the player in the first position that needs to show first. As a dealer, I enforce that rule and tell them, "first to act shows first."
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09-11-2017 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
A super-fast anti-social dealer whose demeanor makes it clear that poker is a business can make the game too serious for my tastes, even though his hands per hour may be through the roof.
This ^^^^^^^!!!

It isn't the dealer's job to entertain the table, but helping to maintain a pleasant cheerful atmosphere is definitely in the description somewhere. At least it is if they want a tip from me. This isn't complicated, a cheerful tone of voice and some positive facial expression when speaking are all it takes; but still there are a few dealers everywhere that manage to fail at it.

Though I'll give you a break in an active Omaha game if you are working to track the pot size. Or if you are obviously green and making sure you have every step down pat for the cameras/supervisors.
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09-11-2017 , 01:09 PM
++ 1 above .. Just a few Dealers out there that can ruin table dynamic IMO by aggressive, almost spastic, actions. Fine line between keeping the game moving and 'pushing' the game. GL
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