He all but mis-declared his hand...might be walking a thin line in the rules... but this ranks right up there with a slow roll...

hay guyz i lie and i take every advantage i can and trap my opponents with rule minutia.

also where da juicy donkfests where people drink and have fun and dont pay attention at???

for some totally unfathomable reason my game is full of surly regs who get two water bottles at a time so they dont have to tip twice, halp me plz tia

This isn't rule minutia by its broadest definition, but anyway my games are juicy specifically because I pretend to be friendly to those who require me to pretend.

Whether you mean to or not, by saying he pretended to be friendly by acting like he was going to chop, you are comparing it to pretending you have the best hand by check-raising. It's just that you draw the line elsewhere. A game without check-raises is objectively a friendlier game to the fishies. You gonna drop that move?

Saying you shouldn't lie about your hand in poker is another level of dumb.

I wouldn't do what OP did, but let's not pretend that Villain wasn't mad at himself for not betting, as he should be.

He didn't misdeclare his hand because this wasn't at showdown.

This is like saying you "misdeclared" you hand if you shove preflop and tell your opponent "You should fold, I've got Aces this time" while he's considering a call. You can only "misdeclare" your hand at showdown; earlier in the hand this is just a bluff.

I am answering the question posed in the OP.

He did not ask if it were against the rules.

He did not ask if Villain had a right to be mad.

He did not contest that it ruined the atmosphere.

He didn't worry about getting banned or even warned.

He asked if he should do it.

And a lot of people, including you in the last paragraph quoted, answer that question - "no."

All three statements in this post are incorrect. Impressive.

He doesn't always have an Ace.


This seems scummy. I'd adjust by cutting you no slack in the future. An astute opponent could also have used this spot to 1) freeroll for very thin value with an A, or 2) maybe even rep a Q.

I like the rep a Q line. "hmm, yeah, probably.....I'm all in"

To me, this is scummy for sure, if not an angleshot. I don't think the floor can do anything here but dam how do you people sleep at night


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So when the old guy says, "Well, I need to get going home. Might as well go all in." and he has aces, is that scummy too?

For people saying this is "scummy", can you articulate how this is different from any other statement made in the middle of a hand implying that you hold a certain card? Is it different than if the OP said "You shouldn't bet, I have a Queen"?

The scumminess is acting like you are stepping out of the roles of the poker game to help someone save money. If we are sitting side by side and having friendly convo all night, and I'm telling you I've been running bad, and starting to really hurt financially, then we get in a big pot and you say under your breath "hey man, save your money, I got there" and you're bluffing, that's scummy. Saying "betting will only cost us rake" on AKQT when you have AQ is scummy.

Saying "Oh, you must have missed your flush, I'm all in" when you have a boat or "Welp, time to head home" when you have AA is a poker speech.

+1

In the OP, how was he offering to save anyone money? He doesn't say he mentioned anything about the rake, and I think it's safe to say rake was already at max after a raise preflop and bets on flop and turn.

The OP is a much closer spot than others described. It is more he is offering to save time, although not everyone knows how rake works, etc. I wouldn't call it scummy, but it is usually bad for the game. More akin to saying you will show if someone folds, then not doing it.

Well said
+1


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+1 this is what I was trying to articulate. Thank you.

This is crazy. You guys genuinely, honest to God see a difference between "Oh, you must have missed your flush, I'm all in" and "Oh, you we must be chopping, I check"? Seriously?! Not to mention:

Acting like you are stepping out of the roles of the poker game = scummy

Acting like you are literally stepping out of the poker game = not scummy

I don't understand the last two statements you made.

But regardless, saying "I think we are chopping" in this context is just saying "I have an Ace and I believe you have an Ace". Speculating about the contents of your hand and your opponent's hand is fully within the poker game. This is much more like saying "I think you have a flush draw" than saying "If you don't check I will punch you in the face".

Table talk is part of the game, nothing to see here

We agree. Black Aces drew a distinction between those two behaviors. I'm demonstrating the absurdity of that.

Please tell me how all three are incorrect? I didn't say he DID mis-declare, that he all BUT mis-declared, it wasn't at showdown- so it isn't- just table talk-
second point- based on house rules- could be walking a thin line in rules- correct?
third point is more my opinion, his comment ranks right up there with a slow roll in, again- kinda shady

Maybe a different description will help. Also, a reminder that I didn't say OP's comment was scummy, but that it is borderline, and that it is bad for the game (especially when it's very obvious you didn't think you were chopping, as opposed to trying to get a showdown with A high on a double paired board where you could credibly say "I am sure we're chopping" and induce a check back).

To me (and several others) it is scummy to behave as though you aren't talking to someone as a poker opponent but as a fellow person. An example would be we are playing pick up basketball while my kid plays on the adjacent playground. Saying "i'm going to go left and beat you so bad" and then actually going right - not scummy. Saying "Hey man, your kid fell out of the swing!!" and taking advantage of my momentary inattention - scummy.

Implying that you are stopping the adversarial relationship to save you both time, save you both money, save a friend from losing more money, etc., when you in fact have selfish motives is scummy.

Seems pretty simple to me. We should all consult Black Aces for the definitive official answer about whether any comment is just poker talk or over the line.

Either that or we assume that all talk that happens at a poker table is poker talk.

Do you disagree with these: "If we are sitting side by side and having friendly convo all night, and I'm telling you I've been running bad, and starting to really hurt financially, then we get in a big pot and you say under your breath "hey man, save your money, I got there" and you're bluffing, that's scummy. Saying "betting will only cost us rake" on AKQT when you have AQ is scummy. "