Yes, it is dangerous to use those words, for exactly the reason you experienced: you might confuse the dealer, and cause someone to misunderstand you, and you might get a ruling that goes against you.

That doesn't mean that always using those words in a sentence is always binding to those words as if they're out of context. It's just dangerous and poor etiquette and possibly angling (but that's a whole other can of worms).

Also take your earbuds out when you're in a hand. Also when you're not in a hand. This is a game of information, and you're willingly handicapping yourself. You got lucky. This time.

The dealer told the floor she heard him say call.

I was seat 7, Villain seat 1....

Villain is the one who said "I said I guess I have to call"

Im taking villain at face value, because he may have said that. I heard "Call"

sorry for the confusion on that part. I did NOT lie to the floor and wouldnt. Hell, Ive returned money to players because the dealer was moving to fast for their own good and OVER PAID ME......that is just how I am...I want to win and beat you, not cheat you.

You misunderstood the situation because you blocked your own hearing, and you made another player feel cheated. This is why the mood changed, and why you feel scummy. If you wish to avoid that in the future, remove your earbuds.

Ive been thinking about this lately...I do one earbud in because then I can still here instructions and conversations, but I have asked myself, is it worth it. I never felt like it cost me anything....until it almost did last weekend.

It also looks ridiculous and anti-social, if that helps.

Thank you. But I would also add, wait to table my damn hand and clarify first, its not a slow roll to ask "did he call"!

I know that I hated that siutation and dont want to put myself in it again and now I understand why I didnt like it

1. I could have avoided the situation by clarifying or waiting for chips to cross
2. handicapping myself so that I can listen to music does and can affect the game and my $$$$$
3. Ultimately I do not know if OMC was taking advantage or felt cheated, either way, I caused the opportunity/situation

hahaha! no need to twist the knife sir!!!!!!!! j/k twist away, I need all the help I can get and the only way to improve is to learn my flaws.

Ok, just some advice you should word your OPs better in the future. Next time, word it like "I here villain say "call" so I flip my hand over.... when the floor comes over, villain says he said "I think I have to call"...."

The way you word it makes it sound like you lied to the floor.

That makes sense. Sorry about that.

No, it's not. Period.

Why?

I dont understand why there are opposing views on this.

Bringing over the floorman was fine. Old man angled and shouldn't be rewarded. 100% if he saw your tabled hand and had you beat, he'd have argued that the fact his chips weren't in the pot was a moot point.

If he said something like "I guess I have to pay to see" or "I guess I have to pay you off" prior to you showing your hand, he wouldn't have had the floor rule against him. But as it stands, I'd rule what he said a call.

Because I can't even count the number of times I've seen people say "I think I have to call," only to see them continue to play with their cards and chips, think some more, and then fold.

I don't see it as a call as well.

They seem like two different kinds of utterances.

"I guess I gotta call" sounds like he/she is just expressing emotion, and to verbally make and confirm a call it needs to be commissive utterance. IMO.

Thank you. I assume you are floorperson?



hmmm...but isnt that why we dont use the word "call" or "all in" while action is on us?

It seems like an angle that way though...it seems like a really cheap way to gather info...or is it just bad etiquette (or none of the above)?

if it is not bad etiquette or an angle and allowed why dont I see this kind of play more often, since it would be an easy way to get some type of player reaction?

Hate to make a football reference, but I feel like using the word call in a way that doesnt actually mean calll is similar to the defense drawing the oline offsides...IDK maybe Im overanalyzing the whole thing

That's why we should try to keep it to a minimum yes but we're not deaf now are we. If any, I think the only bad etiquette displayed is wearing headphones at the table shutting yourself off from properly hearing what's going on and what's being said in what context. But that's just a generation thingy, not real bad etiquette from either. It could be just a clash of generations so to speak. The old man just trying to gather some information, verbally implying he's going to call and waiting to see how you'll react to that. You can call that cheap at worst, but these old players usually chat a lot more and act way more interactive.

IMO, wearing headphones basically excludes you from calling the floor/making trouble over any verbal issue, but whatever. It's certainly not wrong to do. And yes, I've read that it was the dealer who called it, just saying.

Isn't your OP exactly why you shouldn't wear earbuds at a poker table?

"I think I have to call" =/= "call"

Yes, it isn't a wise decision to use words like "call", "allin" or "fold" while the action is on you. Even if it's in the form of a question or statement like "I think I have to call". But that does not mean those words are 100% binding. This hand is exactly why you shouldn't do it. Maybe the dealer and other players only heard that key word.

That being said, I think you got lucky that nobody heard what the villain said. If I'm the floor, I come over, and I have the dealer telling me that villain said "I think I have to call", and I have a guy with earbuds in saying "I heard call" and that guy decided to show his hand before any chips were in the pot, I'm siding with the dealer and ruling that villain doesn't have to call.

I disagree sort of. I think the way it is said indicates whether it is a call. "I think I have to call here" is sometimes a player talking to himself thinking through a hand. But sometimes it is clearly a player announcing he is calling. The way the player says it very important.

I do agree that the best thing to do is wait here to avoid any problems.

I agree with this but the problem is that the floor was not present to hear the way he said it. The floor generally has to make a decision based on the words used since he can't hear the tone and inflection.

If I get called to the table and the dealer says she heard "I guess I gotta call you", I can't rule it as a call.

I'll echo what others have told the OP. Slow down, be patient and wait until the chips are in or at least the dealer has confirmed the call before turning up your hand.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using 2+2 Forums

To me as a floor there is a substantial difference between "I think I have to call" and "I think I have to CALL" and generally I will go with the emphasis.

I try to give the floor a heads up .... I'll typically say something he said "I think I have to call directly towards me, as he was grabbing his chips ....AND I TOOK IT AS A CALL."

At this point I'm saying hey Mr. Floorman don't go into your default mode I'm telling you the way he said was a Call.

I never feel sorry for someone who uses the word call when facing a bet and is held to a call.

In a noisy casino the sentence could blend in to the voices and noise but the word call be clear.

OP shares some fault for the earphone.

On the topic of using words like call or all in when action is on you, I agree that it's best not to do that. But not from an etiquette point of view, or because it's an angle shoot. But rather that I don't want someone else to mistake what I said for something else. But clearly using the word in a sentence doesn't negate the rest of the words. How many times has someone said "do you want me to call?". Would anyone really say he was angleshooting by using the word call, or that he should be held to a call because he used the word call? Of course not. IMO, the angleshoot would be trying to take a single word out of context and use that as an excuse to hold a guy to an action he didn't actually take.

As to the earphone, thing, I never understand why anyone wants to either listen to music or block out what players are saying at the table. Yes, often it's just chit chat. But my experience is that listening to the chit chat, and responding now and then (IOW being friendly to the guy next to you) pays huge dividends. I have many, many times had people either check or bet small when they know they have the nuts and actually say stuff like "Im giving you the good neighbor discount". I've had whales make calls and say "I'm glad you won the money; I don't want THAT guy (the guy who berates him/ignores him) to win it."

Plus, many rec players will actually just tell you what they had/how they play if you listen. They'll say stuff like "I never raise with less than QQ" or "I never raise with AK, it always loses" and be telling you the truth. Rec players just like to have fun and talk poker.

And lastly, I've got a lot of hearing loss from being too close to too many loud noises in my Army years, so combined I probably have 1 ear's worth of hearing. I can't imagine why anyone would want to handicap themselves like that on purpose. There's just too much info to be had at a live table by keeping both ears wide open.

OP: in your original post(along with some follow up replies from yourself itt) you state that you heard him say " I guess I have to call you", yet in some of your other replies, you say that you only heard the word "call."

Look, there's absolutely nothing wrong with letting the Floor intervene, but, if you're going to call a Floor over, it's only fair to tell him exactly what was said. Obviously, if you tell the Floor: "The dealer, the table, and myself heard him say CALL", the Floor is going to rule in your favor. But, if you had conveyed the exact words that were used, there may have been some grey areas and perhaps it wouldn't have ended with the same result.

Did the guy also make a forward motion with his chips? Or was he just playing with his chips? If he made a motion towards the pot, I would call it an angle and would have no problem letting him hang for the money, but if he didn't make any forward motion, then I'm not so sure it's that cut and dry.

Imo, because you weren't 100% clear with the Floor, (which, maybe was the reason why you felt bad afterwards?) I would've returned his last bet back. And before anyone jumps in and says "You can't give bets back!"...Please, it's not the end of the world. By not keeping the $25, maybe that would act as a good lesson(cheap lesson) learned for you to not act too hastily from that point on. Jmo

verbal is binding, if he didnt mean it then he better sharpen up his angleshooting skills.