Good read.

I usually just ignore them, especially if they said something like in the OP. But if it's someone that I think may not realize what a slow roll even is, then I may say something like "I hope you didnt sprain your wrist turning your cards over so fast" in a joking tone. Then usually a player next to him will explain what a slow roll is to him, but in a way that keeps the game fun.

I know a lot of slow rollers and only one of them is a good player. Imo, that's a pretty small price to pay in the grande scheme of things.

Corollary to my previous post: if your opponent says anything like "Ace high", "I missed", "you win" or "good call", and you don't immediately turn over any hand top pair or better, kindly jump off a bridge

If you show how much you care about/dislike being slow rolled, then be prepared to be slow rolled a lot!

Honest question: Why not just flip your ****ing hand over? What's the big deal?

I called a 3! all-in preflop with AK in the CO vs a shove from the SB.

I flipped my hand over immediately. Villain says "I have undercards." Board runs out 8 high. He waits a few seconds and rolls JJ. I nod, don't say a word and prepare for the next hand. That is how you do it.

As counter-intuitive as it seems on the surface, this is a reason to fastroll.

It's in the rules that if you feel you have a winner, you should table immediately. If you're at showdown and your opponent balks, you should have a pretty good idea where you stand in the hand. To win the pot, you're going to have to show your cards, even if he shows first.

You've been in the hand. You have a pretty good idea of your opponent's range, otherwise you wouldn't be calling. If you wait for your opponent to show his losing hand first, you are giving your better opponents more information than they would otherwise have. See what I'm saying?

If you don't want your better opponents to get more information, the solution is to fastroll. Keep your reads of your weaker opponents to yourself.

Yup. "But mom, he should show first!" If you're in the dance, you're a part of the problem. Period.

Exactly. Flip your hand over.

FWIW, at the very highest stakes, showdown goes like this:

"I have A-high."

"I have a pair."

*muck*

*show*

They verbalize to quickty determine the winner, then the appropriate player verifies he was telling the truth. So if you have someone verbalizing, it's your chance to pretend like you're at higher stakes. Dress for the job you want.

Last time this happened it went like this:

Kid shoves, I call with my non-nut fullhouse.

pause......

Kid says "you're good...you win"

pause.....

Kid flips up airball

I flip up my winning hand.


All this happened on the pauper table.


In OP's case it would have went,

"I have A-high"

"I have a pair"

"I have A-high with ace kicker"

Congrats on being a douche.

Now change "kid" to "rich business owner, doesn't mind losing lots of money, plays for fun, but used to being treated with respect"

then it goes:

You: I flip up my winning hand.

business owner: didn't you believe me? I said you were good. Why did you slow roll me? Screw this I'm going to play blackjack".

As business man leaves, pissing off the entire table:

You: but I called HIM!

^^

Well obviously I would give concessions to donators. In my actual case the kid was a young aggro winning reg and left the table after I stacked him which was a win-win for me.

But lets not talk about extreme cases....one of the rules of poker is "never and always should not be in our play book"

Fair enough. I don't know why I got the impression you were one of those guys who always insisted on waiting.

Polarising my posting range :P

That's exactly the sequence of events I have in mind (whether they roll their hand over or verbalize and roll it over when I muck are immaterial to me) and the people I'm telling to jump off a bridge are the dancers that hold it up.

If villain expresses *any* doubt that he has the winner (i.e. he made some crazy hero call), that's my cue to table my hand and let the cards speak from there.

In a mixed limit game, the BB and MP got into a raising war on the flop and turn in a holdem game - a very apparent set over set. BB concedes on the river by checking and calling. MP says, "Two pair" and BB insta-flips over a set of queens. MP flips over one ace, then another for a set of aces.

I both agree and disagree with Lestat. I just think it's situational. There are times when "prove it" or waiting is the best response and times when showing is best.

Wealthy businessman on the button hemorrhaging a ton of money in a high-stakes limit holdem game. River goes BB check, MP check and businessman just tables AJ. BB sees this and begins to bemoan something about every card in the deck for outs, and after a bit businessman happily chimes in, "I lose with everything else, but I'm going to win with nothing?" BB continues to talk to himself to the point where it's like, either **** or get off the pot already. Finally he pitches, and then MP turns over AQ.

I mean, this is just bad for the game. Sure, in the technical sense MP didn't slowroll, but to a rec you want to keep visiting, it sure probably felt like one. To players where winning and losing isn't a concern, you want to keep it as gentlemanly as possible or they'll just take their action somewhere else.

I've only seen this once, and the mucker, once the caller tried to pitch without showing, told him to show the hand.

This is so rare I don't know the rule on it, but I think a verbal declaration must be proven to take the pot.

I hate making a call and having someone not show. Even if you have the nuts you want to see what they had and piece together why they played it that way. You pay to see their hand so show it. If they choose to muck their hand I treat it as a fold and will only show if the dealer advises to do so.

No, you paid to try to win the pot.

If you just want to see their hand, don't call. Fold. Then offer them $xx to see their hand.

This is different than verbally declaring you have the nuts and the bettor mucks his hand as a result and you attempt to not show. If you call and the bettor mucks his hand with no influence by you, then he is relinquishing any right to the pot and you do not need to show. If anyone asks, since there was a showdown, then you'll likely have to show.

I must be an azzhole.

Any time I bet and get called on the river, or it's checked through the river and it's time to show, I immediately turn my hand over. Every time. I don't pause, I don't ask, "you got the flush?", I don't say, "you're good." I turn my ****ing hand over. Immediately.

So when I call a bet on the river, I expect my opponent to do the same. And I'll wait there until he flips his hand over, even if I have the nuts.

Yep, you're an *******. You and everyone like you are terrible for the game

although I have been pretty amused the few times I saw the caller reflexively muck a decent hand when the bettor confidently snap-showed the nut low

Hold yourself to a higher standard than you do those around you.

Are the people at your table competitors? Do you see yourself on the same level as they are? If so, it might be time to find a new table. Or are they customers?

I'm starting to think it's people like the ones here who don't understand show down protocol who are our customers. I also suspect you're the ones betting rivers, getting called, and then slowing down the game while you sit there like a deer caught in headlights not knowing what to do.

I don't know where or what limits you guys play, but I don't get to sit in games where every opponent is some drunken tourist who leaves the game whenever something doesn't go his way. Most of my opponents are at least competent and trying to win money. They aren't going anywhere just because they have to show their hand (or muck) after getting called.

You keep fish happy by being nice and creating a pleasant playing environment. Also by not criticizing their play when they suck out. This is much worse and has a far greater chance of getting them to leave a game than by simply following show down rules.

I don't want to call it "common," but it's definitely an occurrence on the east coast. At least in AC. And in PA it's been the root of many a table change, at the least, and at the worst, taking their last scrapings of a stack to the pit. FWIW I only play 1-2 and 2-5 NL.

I also take exception to your use of "whenever something doesn't go his way."
We are there to cater to them, period. We want their money. If they don't want to just walk in and hand it to us, we must play them in poker for the right to it. In order to allow them to do this as seamlessly as possible, sometimes we overlook the minutiae of our hard & fast poker rules in our mind. The idea is to get everything to go their way, and beat them in the game itself. It's called hospitality and it's how many businesses make their money. Customers take their money elsewhere if they don't feel welcomed. These drunk tourists are our customers.