This occured last night in local casino in a self-dealt up til final table tournament.

I was in the BB, and got some chips changed with the SB to post my blind. During this, the guy to my right(drunk) chucked his cards straight onto mine (self dealt, cards hadnt even got close to me), before i could even touch them.

Floor was called over, but they said its instantly in the muck. Could the floor not identify the cards the guy next to me had?

Other players at the table said I have to protect my cards, which, if I dont get a chance to even look at, let alone touch, is very hard to do.

The biggest kick was the level was 100-200 and my stack was a very healthy 1600. So a nice 12.5% of my stack.

Thanks, James

thats ******ed.

floor should have just took drunk guy off to the side, asked him what his hand was and retrieved your hand.

Standard ruling. You failed to protect your hand.

Definitely have to kill the hand. What if you two are working together and he just gave you your second ace? Protect your hand.

I understand I need to protect my hand. But I was still stacking the remains of my chips. (500 for 5 100 dollar chips, posted 200) Within the 3 seconds of having cards dealt and me stacking my change he had chucked cards onto mine. Its pretty much concluding if i dont have my hands and fingers ready to pounce on the second card dealt within milliseconds of touching the felt im leaving it unprotected.

EDIT:

Drunk guy was on my left**

It is hard to protect your hand when you haven't touched it.... which is why you should've touched it. Getting proper change for your blinds can wait till even after the flop is out, if neededd...

OCD

Yeah, you are correct that it is difficult to protect your hand if you are not given the opportunity to touch it, but that's not what happened here at all. Your priorities were screwed up.

"Protect your hand" does not mean "whenever you get around to it".

The floor made the "correct" ruling. But in doing so, is probably 'incorrect'.

By rule, your hand is dead. I believe the reason for this rule is to prohibit the mixing, or exchange of cards between players. However, a rigid enforcement of this rule opens up a different can of worms. What's stopping a player form "accidently" mucking his hand into another player's hand to kill it and bail another player out of trouble.

It's clearly within a floorperson's right to make a ruling in the best interest of fairness to the game. If the hand was killed, accidently, immediately after being dealt, and it's clear which two cards are which, then the floorperson is perfectly justified in giving the BB his cards back, mucking UTG's cards, and continuing with the hand.

Another example, Player A bets on the river in a tournament, Player B calls. Player A mucks instantly. Player B says "I want to see that hand". Player A's cards have about six or eight atoms in one corner, of one card, that are touching the muck. Floor person can retrieve those cards and show them. Perfectly acceptable ruling.

I understand what the exact rules are, and I'm not going to fault any floorperson for enforcing them. I just think that better floor people can and should make this judgement call.

The other player actually protecting his hand??

unfortunately the ruling is correct and standard.

When ever I am dealing, such as a home game, every card i deal myself gets stuck slightly under my stack of chips. It doesnt have to be much , just 1/8 of an inch is plenty. The reason i started this is because we would play outside often, and the wind could flip the cards so it became a habit. This will protect you in the future.

Look, all I'm saying is that just because two cards touch, doesn't mean you can't tell which is which.

Cards that are dead by rule, can be retrieved, if it's clear which card is which and doing so promotes the best interest of a fair game. I dont' know if that was the case in the OP. All I'm trying to say is that "If they touch, they're dead" is not always the right thing.

Do you think your cards are magically protected until you look at them?

When your first card arrives in front of you it's yours to protect.

If I had talked to some players, ordered a drink, done a few stretches, then id understand the "whenever you get around to it". But that wasnt what I done. How long does it take to put 3 loose chips on your stack, 2 infront of you for a blind and take your cards? 3 seconds about right? if that?

Plus the fact it was self dealt(older female player dealing, didnt deal cards near me) so I also had to reach over for them, hence why Mr.Drunk lobbed the cards on them.

I don't disagree with you on this. In fact i would agrue we don't even have to go to the "best interests of the game clause" in this scenario. I would say that by rule the hand isn't dead.

However your scenario adds one fact which we aren't given in the OP "and it's clear which two cards are which". I took it for granted that this was not the case.

If we don't know which cards belonged to which player ..... then the floor really has no good way to make the hand live while maintaing the integrity of the game. I do know floors who would ask the player who folded what he had and then look at the cards and sort them out. But I do not like this as it can easily be used to cheat.

No I think youre on the wrong end here. I'm not saying that.

Is 3 whole seconds too much time to leave it unprotected?

This is my learning curve

Agree.

And Doubly agree about asking the player which cards he had. Even if it isn't used for cheating. How can you be sure he even remembers which cards he had?

You are correct sir. I am new to this forum, Only recently started playing more poker online too. Just needing direction myself, I know this will be the first of many many debates.

Another point is that the guy was drunk, he may recall two cards he didnt have(due to his drunkeness) and coincidently one may of been one of my cards.

It was this time.

How? They all look the same face down. And now there's four of them in front of you.

Is your hand capable of being fouled or mucked in that time? Yes and it was, so yes to your question as well.

I absolutely hate the "what were your cards?" ruling. It could be a scam between the two. If the mucked cards are not identifiable, the unprotected hand is dead. If his hand was protected, there is a good chance his cards would be identifiable from the mucked hand.

Ok well thanks for the feedback everyone

What?

in a* local casino?

Was self-dealt until the final table which was dealer dealt

Only a small casino

I agree with the others. Once the cards are in front of you, you need to get your hands on them. It sucks because it was such a big portion of your stack that got killed, but you learned a valuable lesson.

They do that? o_O

What? the guy to your right is the SB.