Did the chip cross the line in mid air before he said fold?

OMFG

The guy was trying to be cute, that's all. Anybody holding him to a call must hate having casual players in their game. Trust me, this isn't some slippery slope to anarchy at the table, its' one guy folding in a "clever" way.

Holding him to a call is the worst kind of angle-shooting in all of Angly Shooterville.

50% of me agrees with this - that he was just kidding and its kinda stupid to hold him to a call

But 50% of me thinks its such a dumb thing to do that I want to make him call ;-) You're facing a bet and you throw a chip into the pot, then say "fold" after throwing the chip into the pot... dumb !

I guess pfap has the right ruling though.

If you feel this way why not apply to the guy who verbally announces "all-in - no! just kidding ha ha I fold."?

If the guy said "call - no! just kidding ha ha I fold." then I'd keep him to it. But considering I'm a fan of waiting for being to stop moving their hands before reacting to their bets, I also don't react to chips thrown in the air that haven't landed yet.

I'm okay with giving a warning, but ruling this a call the first time seems a little extreme. I've dealt and played in enough games to know when people are being cute and when they're angling.

I agree that this should be a fold but if the floor is as strict about the betting line rules as the OP makes them out to be I can see it ruled as a call.

It comes down to several factors:

1. Does the line extend upwards? If no - fold, If yes -
2. Did the chip cross the line? If no - fold. If yes -
3. Did it cross the line prior to the player announcing fold? If no - fold. If yes, then...

It's a call. Push him his cards back for the showdown.

I think a few also misinterpreted the OP's remark about a chip dropping. I'm pretty sure he's refering to a situation where a player is pushing a stack of chips forward, say wanting to make a decent raise. The top one falls off and crosses the line first, all by itself. This is now the players bet. If it's short I assume it will be considered a call.


p.s. I have no idea who decides where in the air the chip was and when.

The most usual situation where the string bet/chip drop rule is enforced is if for example a player has 5 $10 chips in his hand; often players will put their hand over the line and drop them, counting out 1,2,3,4,5 etc, so in their head they want to bet $50 and are just counting out to make sure its 50 and not 45, 55 etc.

In this instance only the first chip is counted and they are told in future to count the chips behind the line and then put them in in one go, or to announce how much they want to bet/raise.

It's an interesting point about whether the betting line extends upwards or not and I'll ask the card room manager next time I'm there what his opinion is.

btw thank you mod for the ninja edit of my poor thread title, i will try better in future :P

On second thought, as regard to the betting line extending upwards, given the nature of the string bet rule its seems impossible for it to extend upwards and rather, the deciding factor of when a bet counts is when it hits the felt on the other side of the line.

If this is right then I guess a chip in the air cannot count until it hits the felt and before that happens any other verbal or physical action would counterfeit it.

This kind of thing is one reason why most are against hard-nosed betting line procedures, but I understand it's pretty hardcore in Europe.

I want to make him call just because of the stupidity of the action, it's also the ultimate 'slowroll' type of thing, I just don't like it.

Sigh, though, in terms of fairness it's a fold all day.

A regular thing I see here is players with a hand full of chips will put there hand by the pot then drop only enough for a call trying to see what kind of reaction they get. In an Indian Card Room where they had a betting line one of these guys was made to leave the whole stack behind as once they crossed the line they are part of the pot.

I'll just pretend that I said this, as WRR1986 captured my feelings perfectly.

If I was the floor ( I'm real jerk about this stuff tho) I would of ruled that a player has the right to fold his hand anytime there for the hand is dead, the chip stays as he put the chip in the pot and didn't intercept it prior to the line there for it can't be determined if the fold prior to the chip being thrown crossed the line so the fold is made after it's in the pot. (but I'm a jerk about this stuff and hate guys that won't play straight up)

I have never played with a betting line, but reading this thread makes me never want to.

betting line is no big deal just count your chips outside the line and put them in simple as pie.

OMFG is exactly my thought after I've read the responses after my first post in this thread. Making this guy call would turn him into a rules nit like some around here. Maybe it's contagious. I have the anti-dote though, reasonableness.

All that's required here is to warn the guy to make his actions clear.

And really, you guys going on about the betting line going up in the air. You have some kind of laser vision to determine when the chip broke the plane? Or do they have linesmen looking down the plane to make the call just for circumstances like this?

Bowling, poker, same diff.

The thing is that it seems nitty to me to let hiom fold. Oh well the chip that he tossed in didn't hit the table before he announced fold sounds like the nittiest thing in the world to me.

The way i see this throwing the chip forward like that indicated to the whole world that he was calling or raising. Then he announces something completely different and you guys think its nitty to hold him to his action? but if the chip landed first you hold him to it.

I just don't understand the way you guiys are all seeing this.

Y'know, I'm not sure either, upon re-read. I think I was picturing some guy just grinning and having a good time, tossing the chip and the cards at the same time.

But in sorta shaking my head around and re-reading it, it does seem more like a call. I was thrown off by the whole "betting line" bit of it. If his intent was clearly to fold, I say let him fold. If he was waffling, I'm now leaning towards call.

We're talking a fraction of a second. Like I said earlier something like 0.6 seconds for a 7 foot fall. I don't think we can even remotely call this a slowroll.

I dunno, I'm not really sure either, I agree with pfap, go with your best interpretation of his intention, warn him its an autocall in the future, hope such weird situations don't happen again.

This is maybe a more interesting question. I wouldn't warn him that its an autocall. I think there are better penalties that can be enforced.

Why is this deserving of a "penalty"? Are we all naughty children that must be punished? Why not just, "Hey, dude, we'll let you off this time, but from here on out it's a call." If he continues to try to push the boundaries, hand him a rack and show him the door.

It's standard in places that use the line (at least the ones I've seen). BTW I think the line sucks but you gotta go with the rules.

Oh, my point wasn't that he should get a penalty this time. In my first response I purposefully said I would just warn the guy (and didn't attach a specific penalty).

Telling him that we'll bind him to a call next time seems like a bad idea since now he and others could potentially abuse that. Maybe its not a big of a deal since we're talking call vs. fold instead of bet/raise vs call/fold.

My penalty question was more of what do we do if he does it a second time (assuming we don't want to say we'll bind him to a call). Kicking him out still seems extreme.

Maybe its as simple as saying if he does it again we *may* rule it a call.