I had a floor call tonight and I would love some feedback.

We had a six handed table, with players on seats 2, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9. The remaininig seats were empty. The button was on seat 7. The small blind was seat 8 and the big blind was seat 9. It was a kill pot and the player who was killing the hand was on seat 2.

Seat 4 (first to act) mucked his hand, and seat 6 called the kill. I was then called over by the dealer.

The dealer and the players said that seat 6 had a missed blind and should not have been dealt in. I told the players that action had already occurred by seat 4 mucking and seat 6 calling so I could not call the hand a misdeal. I ruled that she owed the blind and to proceeed with the hand. They wanted her hand ruled dead (I am assuming they wanted her money to be left in to "punish" her for her mistake.)

I explained to them that had she posted, there would not have been a problem. If she had a missed blind button (the dealer forgot to give her one so it was not visible), and said to deal her in, there would not have been a problem. I therefore ruled that as soon as she looked at her cards she was assuming the responsibility of the hand and even if she had folded, she would have owed the post amount.

I could not find anything online to support that the hand should have been dead. I also figured that if the players on the table had good hands, they would not have minded her calling. I want to see what the consistent ruling should be and I would love everyone's opinion and experience on the matter.

Thanks for everyone's time.

RROP states that if the player with the missed blind is dealt in by mistake (i.e. Didnt post the blind prior to being dealt cards) AND has acted on the hand before the error is realized, then the hand is live, he does NOT post for that hand, and play continues. Then, the player posts the missed blind prior to the deal of the next hand.

If the player has looked at the cards prior to posting the blind or acting, and then the error is discovered, then the hand is dead.

So the principle seems to be you cant post after seeing or acting on the cards. But you are not punished for the dealer mistake of dealing you in by having to post after you have folded either.

In the OP the hand should have been played without posting and he posts next hand.

Thank you very much for your reply. I will look up RROP again to find the ruling. I was reading it as fast as I could after the call and must have missed it.

In the version I use, it's rule 11 in the Button and Blind Use section. But I have no idea how many versions are on the web or if there is, in fact, one official RROP site so to speak.

I tried doing it this way in a 1/2 NL game the other night, after a table captain pointed out that someone had to post due to a table change, after the player had already folded and action had moved past. (I had just gotten to the table, and the outgoing dealer hadn't told me.) The TC nearly lost his mind when I told him that the player can post the next hand. The player just shrugged and threw in two bucks. I said that if they don't care, I don't care, and moved on.

I think this should be "must"

The dealer never gave her a missed blind button, so how is she supposed to know that she missed her blinds and needs to post if the dealer doesn't bring it up before the deal?

This one is pretty standard. Her hand is live. Play the rest of the hand out as normal and she posts her missed blind on the next hand.

Well, yes. I meant "can" as in "this is not the end of the world, because there are procedures in place to handle this exact thing. He can post next hand without the sky falling on top of you."

But then he posted anyway, and I didn't feel like getting into it, because who cares. I had no idea which way the floor would go if summoned, anyway.

Speaking of players not flipping out over things that usually cause them to flip out... Someone tried to post missed blinds in a small stakes PLO game, and nobody objected when I said "no posting in Omaha" and tossed it back.

I might whip this room into shape yet.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I think that part of the problem was that the call broke the game and two of the players left very angry. One of them said that he doesn't care if it is the right call or not, but that our floormen are very inconsistent with each other.

This I apologized for and promised to share this with the other managers to help develop a consistent ruling.

Ummm ..... I don't know how a person could possibly know this?


While its possible to construct a scenario where the player really wouldn't have knowledge (a whole bunch of ultra fast hands and a player who is only gone for a brief time) generally the player should have an idea if they missed the blinds or not. (Yes the dealer should have given the button ..... but that in and of itself doesn't mean that players shouldn't recognize when they have missed the blinds)

I remember trying to calm a player who was very upset about something even more trivial than this by telling her, "It's not the worst thing in the world."

She hissed back, through clenched teeth, "Yes...it....is!"

What had her so upset? The usual red deck/blue deck setups had been replaced by brown deck/purple deck setups that day.

You can't tell me poker players don't suffer from OCD.

See what I mean?

Don't worry about that call breaking the game, Temu. At six-handed, every one of them was already entertaining the idea of quitting before this issue arose.

You're telling me that in all the years you've dealt you haven't had anyone look at you funny or not know what you were talking about when they return to the table and you ask if they want to post or wait? Not everyone understands that they have to post their blinds to make up for missing them while they went peepee.

You can't please all of the people all of the time, and you can't please any of the poker players any of the time.

Yikes!

The operative word is "should." However, you're going to have 3 classes of players. The first truly don't understand why they should pay the missed blinds. While rare these days, there are players that have never played in a casino before and their whole experience is around their cousin's kitchen table.

The second are the rules nits. They are going to make a federal case out of, "you can't prove I missed the blinds, I don't have a button." The third are the angle shooters that are hoping if they make enough of a stink, the dealer will let it slide to keep the game moving.

I didn;t say there aren't people who might not know .....

I was responding to a your statement which suggested that there was no way for them to know....


So while there might be a reason that she doesn't know ..... its not as you suggest because there is no way for her to know.

It is the dealer's responsibility and not in any way the players. Players aren't all super experienced. In fact as long as you have a reasonable amount of newbies you have a quicker game and better chance at the pot.

So let the player be and penalise the dealer...

If I come back to the table and don't have a missed blind button in front of me I am not going to post unless the dealer tells me to. I don't care if I think I probably missed them or not. I feel I am in the majority here.

no missed blind button you can play the hand. then post next hand.

missed blind button if you look at them you are in and owe the blinds regardless of whether you play or not.

floorman should teach the dealers what to do. and dealers that cant remember to give out buttons arent made for the job.