I hope that you meant this tongue in cheek, because, as has already been pointed out in this thread, good deales are a LOT more than that, and being a good dealer means anything but being a robot!

GOOD dealers, the ones who really know how to run a game and properly keep track of everything, are not easily replaceable. And, they shouldn't be considered "cheap". Players, on the other hand, can be replaced. Players who cause problems and are disrespectfull to other players and/or the staff (dealers, floor people, etc.) can and should be tossed out.

You are sooooo right!! I've never wished to be a mod more than right now - even if it was just long enough to lock this thread and wield a ban-hammer on:

1. Your arithmetic is way off. Dealers are not dealing 8 hours a day and getting good tips. Dead spreads tip zero. Tournaments and the 2/4 games don't tip much. Sometimes there are no players, and the dealers are sent home early. Etc.

2. Dealing - and by dealing I mean being a good dealer and really doing the job right - is anything but a "zero-skilled" job. Quite the contrary.

3. I've noticed that over the years that anytime someone makes the sort of claims you do about "zero-skilled" workers (in their eyes, not necessarily in reality) making too much - and then going on to state how much (little, really) those people should (in the poster's eyes, at any rate) be making is talking about a wage that the poster would never work for himself!

We get it, really. You feel that you are someone "really important" who deserves whatever sky-high salary you're making, and everyone else is - in your opinion - a "turd-boy" or "fool" who should be thankful to make even minimum wage. You come across as a total douche, but that's your prerogative.

I really, really, really, wish that I had a ban-hammer to wield right about now!!

Lee

[QUOTE=KingLeonidas;26180442]

And $1/hour for the 60 cards tossed toward my seat. I pay rake, BBJ too. That pays them. Where does it end?

I work in Atlantic City... We get paid a little more than half of minimum wage. BBJ has to go to the players, it is state regulated and monitored. The casinos do not hire full time dealers any more... Most have not in 5 years or so. They hire you part time. We don't get the same benefits as full time employees, and we get about 24 hours a week. So your yearly calculation is slightly off. Let's not forget housing costs in NJ... my 1 bedroom apt I have, the cheapest I have had in my life is 850 a month. And NJ has the highest property taxes of any state.

And i believe there is a fitting expression, about walking 1 mile in another's shoes that applies here.

Yet you dont have the education to know that "alot" isn't a word...I'm surprised to find out that someone with such a slipshod grasp of English is able to make sick money

OP, I think if you are seated next to him you can say something to him, but not if a dealer will hear it. I wouldn't tell him he is tipping too much I would just hint at it enough to draw it to his attention so he will pay attention to what other people are tipping and then he can make his own decision. If you come on too strong about his tipping and you could find the opposite reaction you were looking for.

classic

Seriously why do you even care? BTW who is the fish here? He appears to be winning.

Thanks Lee, you said what i was about to.

Since when does relative "skill" level of a job or how hard (I assume you mean physically) a job is have anything to do with what people are paid? I thought it was supply and demand?

The reason people are pushing back at you is this is how your posts go -

1. People should be allowed to tip what they want.
2. I (KingL) tip $1 per hour and here are my reasons.
3. Your (everybody else) reasons for tipping more are wrong and stupid.

King, I believe in people tipping however they want. However, if you are going to justify your tipping practice with the skill:salary argument, why not compare to something closer to being a dealer than a teacher, plumber, cashier, etc. Try an umpire. MLB salary for professional umps is $84,000-$300,000 (source:mlb.com). I think this is a pretty fair comparison, especially considering their role is officiating a game which is the primary responsibility of a dealer.

I whole-heartedly agree that there is a significant gap between what most people are paid and what they deserve (teachers, law enforcement, first responders, military, etc.) For me, salary has always been reflective of responsibility. The more I was responsible for the more I demanded in compensation for my time. Dealers have many responsibilities which can affect multiple people on one error, so I think the AVERAGE dealer salary of roughly $40,000 (source:hcareers.com) is not unreasonable.

Please do take a moment to read the last page I linked, hcareers, as it has some of the same basic information that the others here have pointed out (large tips balancing out the otherwise slow times, breaks, etc.) but is coming from a non-biased source rather than dealers. Maybe it will change your mind on tipping, maybe it won't. Like I said before, I don't care what you tip but would be happy to discuss the merits of your reasoning.

anyone, ANYONE who wants to "ban-hammer" someone is ghey, and their opinion is now VOID. Buh-bye now.

p.s. why ban a person, they can just create a new e-mail and new account and be back in 5 minutes. I have not been abusive, you have.

[QUOTE=TS2;26181570] 1) you chose the profession.
2) ask your employer to pay a better wage.
3) if you work 24 hours/week you can have 2 dealing jobs or another job.
4) I wish my living costs were 850/month.
5) if you are renting you don't (directly) pay property tax. Your landlord does. which factors into your 850/month.
6) walk in the shoes of someone grinding. They are working too. If they are trying to make $30/hour at 2/5 then why should they tip more than $1/hour.

Nobody is debating my point. The point is $1/hour should be the standard and more if you like. The stupid thing is players chastising other players for not tipping what they think he should. DUCY?

Honestly, I don't mean it too much tongue in cheek. The robot in the center of the table has a pretty clearly defined function. Sure, it does a number of tasks, but I'm sure the Japanese or the Koreans have almost got him replaced. If they can build a Hundai, I'm pretty sure they can pass out 20 cards and perform complex tasks like taking $6 of the pot...

---

As to the rest of this conversation, there's already a good thread about dealer pay.

Dealers make about $5 an hour, more or less depending on local tip laws, work 32 hours a week so the casino avoid benefits, and of those 32 hours a week, only get to deal 70% of those hours. That means they get $160/week in base and then they get 22 hours a week of dealing poker, where they can make $30/hour in tips, sometimes more, sometimes less depending on their market - for an effective rate of $25 an hour, plus or minus what they tip to others or get tipped on tournaments, etc.

Good dealers make more.
Bad dealers work where they pool tips -- or so the story goes.

It's still good pay for, essentially, unskilled labor -- while it takes training, and good dealers are good dealers, it doesn't require a degree or a state certification (beyond a background check) or a minimum number of years in apprenticeship, etc.

1) i agree I have said that
2) i agree i've said that.
3) NEVER said that. I am saying why I believe $1/hour is ok. I have then stated you have the freedom to tip whatever you like. Free country dude. BUT, you are not free to deride someone at the table for not tipping what YOU feel is correct. Do you understand now.

To put it bluntly. Lets say I play at a casino 30/hours a month. That is 900 hands. If I play 28% of hands and win 12% (108 hands) (and profit nicely). I have contributed these amounts to you and the casino:

108 hands x $4(avg rake) =$432 to the casino
108 hands x $1 BBJ = $108 to the jackpot hunters
30/hours x $1/hour = $30 to the dealers.

So I have now given up $570 of my winnings or $19/hour to you and your boss for sitting in a chair drinking water and being a polite customer ( I have had only 1 run-in in Vegas with a drunk/arrogant fool on) as I NEVER create any trouble for the staff. I'll never swear at a dealer, he can't control the cards so he deserves no scorn. I'll certainly never EVER throw-up or urinate on a dealer. If a guy did that to a female dealer at a table I was at, I may have a hard time restraining myself from knocking him out.

At no time have I said they SHOULD NOT get whatever they recieve in tips, or belittled anyone for tipping alot. Read back. I justified why $1/hour IS acceptable. If someone at my table chooses to never time, that is his call too.

Now, can you debate any of this?

It's their own damn business how much they tip, just like it's your own damn business how much you spend on shoes.

This is exactly what I have said.

BUT

Are you the type of guy who'll "call out" someone at your table you believe is under-tipping? If so, then you are a hypocrite.

You have 190 posts on this site... 180 of them being about tipping. Are you a dealer? You should probably be reading up on poker strategy and making your posts more toward your profession instead of others. If you want to tip a dollar an hour so be it... why tell other people to tip only a dollar an hour? If a cocktail waitress brings you 8 drinks in 1 hour do you tip her $1 an hour or $8 total? You make no sense with your reasoning of even posting about this. Go to the table... tend to yourself, tip what you feel is sufficient, and leave the rest up to whoever else is playing. You are making arguments on this forum that are going to absolutely go no where.

I thought I was debating the points you made about skill:salary ratios. I also think it has been debated that your $1/hour is impractical to arrive at a dealer making ~$17/hour. I know dealers in a busy NH room that make $7.50 salary and roughly $10/hour in tips and they arrive at your number but they do that figure on the $1/most pots tipping which is typical.

Others have pointed out there can be a lot of downtime to dealing (dead spread, wait for tourney to start, forced breaks every 1.5-2 hours to keep dealer "fresh", etc.)and most dealers (especially in pooled tip rooms) average around $17-20/hour gross at the end of the day.

Assuming you could convince the entire poker community $1/hour is a better system, you then have to convince the players who go broke to keep some cash in pocket to tip with before they leave. In tournaments, everyone who enters would have to tip the dealer out of pocket while it played out. And now as tables are being broken the dealer is making less per hour because it is 8,7,6,5 handed. And the biggest obstacle to your system is dealers generally only sit on a table for 30 minutes. If they keep their own tips rather than pool are you going to keep a roll of quarters on you to tip $0.50 when they leave? Or track how much time they deal you through the day and seek them out when you leave to tip them the appropriate amount?

Hello, it is nice to meet you. Pleasure to make your acquaintance. You have a hell of an opening, criticizing me for something you don't even know that I'm doing. Do you find this strategy works well for you in general?

If you're going to the hypothetical, try this: "I imagine you also don't call out someone at your table for what you believe is under-tipping, and if so I applaud your consistency."

I feel no need to defend myself against you.

1) 191 posts and I went back and counted, 32 on tipping. Probably too much. But dislike idiots always berating the 2-3 people at the table who don't tip $1-5/pot.

2) If you read my posts I have said, TIP WHAT YOU WANT. But I'll tip this amount and here is why. So my reasoning is airtight. If you want to be Mr. Orange okay, but leave Mr. Pink the hell alone.

This is really not worth it. While I applaud your intentions, all you're doing is opening up a can of worms and giving people more reasons not to tip.

Almost everybody who has weighed in on this issue understands the system and is a reasonable tipper. There's no need to wave big red flags due to a slim minority.

As a dealer, I never want to have this conversation. Tip what you think is fair, whatever that may be. If I don't feel it's a reasonable compensation for the service provided, I'll find another job.

Exactly.

This clown has entered every tipping post on this forum, with the same ridiculous reasoning.

As for his history......military trainng....4 yr degree....."sick" money as an engineer or whatever.

Very few people who have this background act like this fool. Tossing around words such as "ghey (wow, you are so clever getting around the censor), continually restating his case AD NAUSEUM.

He's a troll, doesn't have the background that he claims to have. Nobody making "sick" money talks like that if they do.

Can we get a lock on this clown, or an ignore?? He's being worked over in this thread but somehow, in his active little mind, thinks otherwise. At least he's good for a few laughs....bozo style.

1) I believe a dealer is worth maybe $10-12/hour. I think my $1/hour tip will allow them to achieve this.

2) Most tourneys either take 2-3% of pool to tip dealers already, or for $5-10 you get more chips but that money goes to dealers...or both. At that point I won't tip anything from my tourney win, as I already got raked enough.

3) I posted why I feel my tip/hour is feasible. I don't care what the rest of the poker community tips. Buy, you should give me the same rspect and not care what I tip. Sound fair?

OP asked and mostly answered. tthric, lock it up.

I have destroyed every argument you make. Now you use the "he must be a liar" defense. Very original.

It seems as though you do.

Most rational opinions here suggest that you're free to tip whatever you feel is appropriate. So, honestly, nobody with an informed opinion cares that you change your ways.

In the meantime, you and the people arguing with you should keep screaming, "I don't care!" at each other. It's fascinating.