I have experienced this electronic poker table when gambling in Germany. My feelings are both good and bad things about this table.

I do not think experience of this table can be conveyed by only language. It is something each player will have to experience and decide for him self, if he is interested in making the experiment.

It is very surprising experience the first time, that I can say, and this is coming from long time omaha player! Players who will not try this table are - how shall we say - involved in missing something I can not describe. It is not like online and not like chips and cards. The game moves very fast. Players do some most amazing things.

I am happy reading that you would be sad if poker dealers where you play would be losing their employment. In Europe we do not think most Americans care so much about workers as we care in Europe, and neither treat them as well. It is good to hear from American who cares that good workers do not go losing their jobs. Poker dealers are especially good workers when they are good! And on occasions, the opposite is true also.

Best regards for all American poker players, I am sorry I could not travel to Las Vegas this year, but we will have opportunity to play again in Springtime 2009 as I have been scheduling my work and vacations in advance. I am very much hoping you will still be enjoying the wonderfull game of omaha!

Hanno

The rub with these tables is getting players accustomed to them.

One way to accomplish this might be to use them in conjunction with live tournaments. An example could be that satellites to a tournament could be played on e-tables.

Also, a portion of the first, say, quarter of a tournament could be conducted on e-tables.

An additional advantage to this approach would be that more hands could be dealt for the same cost to the casino. This would promote more thoughtful play and a greater advantage for the thoughtful player.

I think this is a operating cost issues for casinos. The dealers have to be paid, they receive benefits, they can show up for work late and call out sick. Finally, they are human and often make mistakes. Lets not forget that the auto tables can deal more hands efficiently which increase the number of hands per hour as well as the amount of rake collected. The only costs associated with the tables are maintenance and licensing agreements. A reduced rake is the selling point.

David,

I played for months on the e-tables at HP so I can speak about this with some experience.

Game and player setup need to be streamlined so that players can jump right in and the table isn't held up while someone on staff has to show the player what to do.

Rake must be lowered. If casino's want to brag about reducing costs then they must be passed on to players in lower rake/drop.

Design tables to stop the false chip bets used to get reads.

Program the software so that all in bets are added to the pot only up to the effective stack. I was once faced with the prospect of getting 5:1 odds on the turn only to do a double-take and realize that the software counted the other players entire stack even though he had me out-chipped.

Keep a floor right at the tables to put a stop to collusion, etc.

Pre-program mixed games, especially hi low games. These tables can be great for those.

I'm sure there's more but I can't remember all the details. There was a big thread on the old version of 2+2.

These tables are great, but weren't too popular at the casino where I played them, so they removed them. IMO the pros FAR outweigh the cons. I mean seriously, no dealer tips, everything automated, no mistakes, etc. What more could you want?

Yeah, it's fun to play with chips and do stupid little tricks with them, but if you want to grind, these things are where it's at. Maybe I'm saying that because I cashed in like 8 SNGs in a row on them, but I really like the feel of playing on those tables.

Hah! What line do you want to set on the over/under?

BTW, nice to have you back.

All your points are very true, but as far as this one, if I remember correctly, all the players at your table can see you adding and removing chips to your bet, but once you confirm it, the stack moves in one way or another. Like it moves forward once you confirm it or something, so you knew the difference.

A player seeing you adding or removing chips to your bet is simply like stacking chips in real life or removing or whatever and yes it's an angleshoot, but you can angle in real life with the slow pump fake bets that get taken back, etc. The machine makes it easier because if you've played on them more than once, you can SEE when the bet is confirmed or not, and once the player presses the confirm button, his bet stands. There's no dealer judgement, no calling the floor asking what do we do, does the bet stand, does it not, blah blah. All that **** gets taken out.

I dont want them in casino's nor do I believe that they will ever be in demand.

I like PT for dealing, but I still like to handle and stack chips. Not sure how this issue could ever be addressed without some kind of referee/employee at the table -- which, of course, cuts into the advantages of PT.

When PT takes the world by storm, I will miss seeing all the cards that the kind players (and occasional dealers) at my tables show me. Its a rare hand that I don't have at least two cards (other than mine) located through visual evidence. However, putting an end to calls for a setup, and also to marked cards will be a true blessing.

I played at poker pro tables for first time at Mohegan this weekend.

After 2 hours of playing i was sick of it. If i'm goign to drive to a casino, i rather play w/ chips and cards. If i wanted to play w/ a screen then i'll just stay home.

Wouldn't it be sweet if they included a HUD.

No.

No!

Interesting. I was about to suggest HU play as a game where the pros of e-tables certainly would outweight the cons. HU play isn't available in traditional casinos, and this would be a way to solve that. Aside from development and production costs of the machine, it shouldn't really cost the casinos much to have a few HU stations available.

I think we all understand why it is an advantage to see the two bottom cards of the deck. It gives you a marginal advantage. The extent of how high you would want to play with that advantage obviously depends on where your game is at originally.

Ooooh, yeah!

But would you maintain and carry your database to the cardroom each time? I think that would be far preferable to having the system maintain it for everyone, because maintenance of a PokerTracker database is an essential skill like estimating stack sizes or deciding whether to show or muck at showdown. The cardroom could facilitate a secondary market of mined hands on CD or DVD for those players who want to monetize their diligence in this area.

Ideally, the system will also be equipped with an adaptation of existing face recognition technology to look for tells. That way an alert could go off on my opponents' screens every time the system picks up one of mine!

It's mostly used on the newer players because they forget that you have to press confirm. All they see are chips flying out in front of the bettor and it's very easy to pick up tells.

HP had HU tables used for tournament style games but I rarely saw them in use.

Congratulations David!

I have played on these tables at Hollywood Park, Memphis, Turning Stone and Mohegan Sun. I love the potential of the tables for all the obvious reasons.

I recently wrote to state legislators in Pennsylvania asking them to consider requiring that all poker rooms (yet to be legalized) use computer poker tables for easier regulation and management as well as for more fair and accurate games. I also wrote to Lighning Poker to encourgage this idea. Lightning Poker is based outside of Philadelphia and provides the tables at Turning Stone and also has a distribution contract with part-owner Shufflemaster. However it is possible that Lightning Poker is now out of business.

David, you should be able to help Poker Tek sell the idea of their tables to Pennyslvania. It is so much easier for the state to regulate poker if all tables are computerized and it is so much easier for the casinos to manage. Imagine: no chips or cards or drop boxes or dealer trays and all the problems associated with them. One of the added bonuses is that the games are more fair and safe for the players from the waiting lists to protecting their money to less fights and hassles. Players will learn to like the advantages of these tables because, well, they will be the only legal poker games in the state. There would be much less of the problems associated with new rooms in new poker areas.

On another note: the Trump Plaza's Poker Pro room has a few problems and none of the many "suits" there or the Poker Tek guy seem to be able to fix them. The first week of operation the hands would end all too quickly and many players weren't aware of the winning hand. Management's answer was to use the "review last hand" feature while you are playing in the next hands. Later an adjustment was made but it only allowed more time after the pot was pushed and the screen was blank so as of last week it was still hard to enjoy the end of the hand and then you had to watch a blank screen for too long. The other major flaw is that when you join a game it automatically posts and when you rejoin after a break it automatically makes up blinds. Also, when the blinds come to you it automatically posts. Again their answer is an ineffective solution to perfectly time the right sequence of buttons to sit out precisely before your blinds and to sit back in just when your blinds are due. This is unacceptable and there is an easy solution that is being ignored. I'm sure you realize that the success of these tables depends on getting all the little details right before enough players will support them.

Good luck and fortune with your new position.

Chris

Meh it just dont feel like poker to me.

When you are a paid consultant, its pretty difficult to be unbiased. Obviously, Mr. Sklansky wants these to succeed.

If I want to play poker on a computer, I'll stay at home. To say that the PT tables are not like playing at home have got to be kidding. No cards, chips, dealers, etc...how is this not like playing on a computer.

How much faster do you want your games to run? Geez, everyone is in such a hurry anymore. Many players prefer handling cards, stacking chips after a nice pot, have distinctive ways of putting out bets, some don't mind tipping a dealer (what a great way to help a struggling economy....putting people out of work).

If these tables are in most rooms by the end of 2009, I'll personally buy one for my house. Doubt it.

"Oh, groovy. Smashing. Yay capitalism!" -- Austin Powers.

What does this mean?

You are quoting a comedian's writing for a character who can't take the world seriously.

The main reason Pennsylvania does not have poker now is that it is so hard to manage and to regulate. If it were easier there would be poker now. I believe the computerized tables make it much easier and that requiring them would make poker acceptable to the state and to the casinos and that they could do it much sooner. As a player I look forward to lower costs, higher hourly win rate and much less stress. These tables can virtually eliminate the many problems associated with wait lists, chip handling, card handling, sequence of action, stack sizes and pot size (for kills and pot limit and determining odds).

However, I don't believe the computerized tables will replace current tables. I just believe they would be best for Pennyslvania.

Perhaps I am wrong and you can share your opinion
to help me understand. I do understand that many players believe cards and chips and dealers and arguments are all a vital part of the game and that people are naturally resistant to any change. My sense is that poker with less stress and arguments can attract more players and be a more enjoyable experience and this is my hope for Pennsylvania.

I find it hard to believe that people who have played these tables and have played live with dealers don't like them.

The advantages, more hands per hour, no dealer mistakes, no playing out of turn, knowing everyone's stack size to penny, reduced cost, easily out weigh the disadvantages, angle shooting by not confirming a bet or greater collusion because no dealer control.

Regarding the disadvantages, the angle shoot should only fool you once, if at all, I agree with an earlier poster that it is more akin to cutting out a big bet and then pulling some of it back before putting it across the line or releasing it from your hand, the second problem is addressed because anyone, (maybe only if they're in the hand), can pause the hand and call the floor if they feel something is amiss.

I've only played them at Mohegan Sun and can say that on a weekend the wait to get on one of these tables, can be pretty long since they took a number of the tables out a couple of months ago. Since they removed a number of tables, I realize I'm probably in the minority but I would rather play these tables than with a dealer. It will be interesting to see if Mohegan Sun keeps these tables when their new poker room opens next month.

I agree with whoever said if I'm going to a casino I want real cards and chips. I can play online at home. If it's all about more hands, why not multi-table online?.

These things are not gonna catch on IMO, unless they get some kind of zoning law that allows them in places that are not casinos and couldn't legally have card games, like some of the slots-only places (racetracks, etc.) If I'm at a real casino I'm just gonna play real poker.