I feel more sorry for the kids who are 100K in debt from student loans and are working at McDonald's despite having their Masters.

I feel way sadder for this guy, in so many respects.

I'm 2/3 through my doctorate and can't find a job in my field (ed.) that I have a couple of years of experience in. It's either poker or I lose my house since nobody will hire me. Oh and very few student loans thanks to poker despite attending 3 private universities.

FYP

OP it sounds like you're more bitter then feeling bad for these kids cause you took a safe route instead of following your dreams. Personally I feel those who go for their dreams live better lives - granted failure rate is much higher, but most of what makes this world great that we live in today is because of people taking risks and going out on a limb. Let the young guy take his shots - if hes a smart guy he'll succeed in poker and probably turn it into something else that will be even more profitable. And if all else fails, free food at Mcdonalds never hurts

What do I have to be bitter about? I have a solid job with benefits, health insurance, etc. And I still play 1-2 times/week in the games I would be playing in anyways if I was a pro grinder, except I would be playing 50 more hours a week (which I consider avoiding a good thing).

I am just saying having been playing live poker for 10+ years, IMO there really is not much earning potential and opportunity there in the long run compared to going to college and getting a real job, and the rake is getting higher and the games are getting tougher and tougher every year.

There really is not much high stakes poker anymore, and whatever you guys are making at 5-10NL now, at best you will probably be lucky to be doing just as well 10 years from now, and at that point many of your peers who went the more traditional college/job/career route will be in much better shape than you will be.

And on top of that, spending all that time in a casino grinding away will get old, maybe not this year and maybe not the next one, but eventually it will.

I am the same as you in regards to: "Anyways, for one reason or another despite seriously thinking about it I never took the plunge to play poker as a pro, and instead finished college, got a job, got married to someone who has never played a hand of poker in her life, etc. " Seriously, my wife's never even been in a casino in her life.

However, we got out of college, had a child, and then the economy died. My company and 50K job were gone and we had nothing to turn to. College loans, rent, car, and kid fresh out of college.

My poker skills were moderate and bankroll was moving up when I played on the side while working. So I went to the tables and grinded while looking for a job. No job came, and poker remained my only source of income.

Instead of myself working two crummy jobs or making my wife work when we have a newborn at home I did as you describe: "Still, it makes me sad to see these young smart kids pissing their life away staying up till 6 am, sleeping till noon, developing none of the job/life skills that would have guaranteed them a good upper-middle class life by the time they got into their 40s, going down a path that will lead to nothing but regret 10-15 years down the line. "

Now I'm 24, employed again after the two years of grinding it for a living, and have no regrets. If I didn't have poker during that time, I'd have crazy debt, would have sat around on unemployment, and been miserable.

Yes I was on tables till 6am, but it was still much better then working two minimum wage jobs. I paid all my bills, gave my wife and child everything they needed, avoided being some one living off unemployment, and enjoyed it for the most part.

Walking around with 5K rolls when I should have been walking around with rolls of quarters - I don't care if it makes you sad, it gave me and my loved ones a means to life.

Traditional careers have many drawbacks as well. Spending 100k+ on schooling to make 30k/yr once you get out isn't ideal, and realistically even with pay increases over the years, you'll be in debt for nearly a decade. Some people don't enjoy putting on a suit and tie at 6 am, busting their ass for a 10 hour day, just to get home, go to sleep and repeat it the next day. Does working 60 hour weeks for a boss not get old? I think playing in a casino does suck, but in terms of working those hours in an office, it has to be better. There's definitely careers that are awesome and very fulfilling but
more people hate their jobs then enjoy them so you be the judge on who's enjoying life.

So, you graduated college, got a job and then played poker for a time when you are in between jobs. If I was fired tomorrow I would probably try to play poker for a living too until I got back on my feet.

If you really think this is the same thing as a kid who never even went to college and is playing poker for a living with the intention of never getting a job in their life or waking up before noon again, then I feel very sad for you too.

And I do not know where this weird idea that a little low interest debt in your 20-30s is such a bad thing. I pay $350/month for my college loans, which is little enough that it doesn't affect my standard of living at all, I get to write the interest I am paying off in my taxes so at the end of the day it is even less than that, and doing this for 6 years has boosted up my credit score where I will be able to buy a house when I am ready (sometime in the next 2-3 years)

If your brilliant career choices haven't lead to income sufficient that you don't phase out of deducting student loan interest, here's some advice you should take:

Stop telling people how to live their life. You haven't accomplished squat.

a little low interest debt? The average fixed rate is roughly 7% on student loans - toss in 80k debt and a 35k/yr job for students coming out of school and good luck getting break even by 30. Paying 350 a month I can't imagine how much money you lit on fire in interest over the years - probably better not to figure that one out.

This is a ******ed statement. Everyone writes off debt payments, including extremely successful corporations and individuals. I guess this is what happens when you spend too much time in the Bellagio cafe instead of going to college.

And something else you probably wouldn't get, I could actually pay off the debt completely if I thought it was in my best interests, but there are advantages to keeping low interest debts and using the extra cash saved on better things.

(Replying to Keno)

Finance is not an area of expertise for me, so I will take your word on this. I actually consolidated my loans years ago and am doing way better than this. But I understand with the collapse of Sallie Mae and Freddy Mac this isn't possible anymore.

And (unfortunately) I know exactly how much interest I pay every year, because I write it off in my taxes.

Only benefit to working an office job is that you know how much you will get paid each week and you know you will be covered by benefits if you were to need medical care. . other then that, they are both the same type of grind. majority of people are not happy with their jobs so why not play poker if you are good enough? those miserable players who have been grinding for 15-20 years just don't have the motivation to change their careers. if they are not happy, then they should stop playing and search for a different career

It is not just motivation. They also don't have the resume or connections, two other advantages of working a 9-5 and interacting with people who you are not trying to clean out.

But anyways, I am sure there are people who have the capabilities to make skipping college and grinding B&M poker for a living work, but it is not as easy as you think it is, and for most people there are probably a lot better options out there.

If your income exceeds a fairly low amount you can't deduct student loan interest on your taxes. Call it ******ed but it is accurate.

What that means is that you're poor.

So stop giving out advice.

[QUOTE=jdock99;26196846]It is not just motivation. They also don't have the resume or connections, two other advantages of working a 9-5 and interacting with people who you are not trying to clean out.

But anyways, I am sure there are people who have the capabilities to make skipping college and grinding B&M poker for a living work, but it is not as easy as you think it is, and for most people there are probably a lot better options out there

if you look hard enough, you will find a career that you want, they can rely on poker until they find that career but they just grumble away and nit it up to survive

All the power to the person who can be successful in any aspect of life.

However, what make me sad is thinking about all these very intelligent young people using their intellectual abilities to get better at a game instead of something that will, in the end, produce something tangible, meaningful and important to him/herself or mankind as a whole.

What could all that brainpower accomplish if harnessed in another direction?

I probably have a pretty average job for a semi-recent college grad, between 50k-100k with medical, retirement blah, blah, blah, and I only expect it to go up as the years go on.

I suppose if I was a pro B&M grinder, grinding out 2000+ hours I might be able to do as well, but I don't know, and unless it was A LOT more it definitely wouldn't be worth it. Like I said, I have been around the poker scene a long time, and it is tougher than it seems.

And if I am poor you have a very distorted view of fiscal reality, another side-effect of a career choice where you win and lose fortunes very quickly.

A fairly low amount?

You mean as in $75,000 if you're single or $150,000 if you're married?

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/ch04.html

So that's the definition of poor these days, huh?

Or were you just misinformed?

At what age are "kids" responsible for their life choices? You're not ******ed at 18, 19, or 21 when it's legal for you to play. You assume the risk under your own volition, and I don't feel sympathy for those who fail.

What's more, if you start playing at 18, how long can it possibly take you to realize you don't have what it takes? If you're still a losing player at 21, it's not like you don't have time to go back to school.

You're not poor but 60k isn't much money. After taxes you have low 40s - unless your living in your parents basement you have atleast 30k in living expenses, so maybe you save 5k/yr. Sounds fun.

I'm just sad that they're playing high-stakes and not me.

How much do you think the average B&M grinder makes? It isn't 100k a year. And even if it was, it is still a tough life in its own way.