PLEASE always keep insulting Hellmuth, laughing at him and booking him. You're the only player at the table being honest!

Here is the thing, PH has been saying he's been working on his behavior for 10+ years now. I used to take him aside and explain to him what he was doing and how he was making people feel. A story from the bike from maybe 10 years ago:

Roberto Flood, a sweet man in his late 40's is in a stud pot and PH is in the hand as well. Roberto makes a bad bet on 6th street and it ends up costing PH the pot. PH just goes ballistic on Roberto and is uber mean to him. Roberto realizes that he made a mistake, but if you looked at his face, it looked like he wanted to cry from embarrassment. He called out Roberto in front of the whole room for his mistake, and made Roberto, like the sweetest man you'll ever meet, feel like the biggest idiot in the world.

I was fuming. On the break I took PH aside and told him he was being a complete jerk. That's not the first time something like that's happened, and it won't be the last. It's totally uncool, and what he did to Christian Dragomir is equally inappropriate.

Whether PH did anything wrong on this episode, aside from the weird comment about me being ugly, why does ANYONE think he deserves a free pass from ridicule? Ever hear the saying, "If you dish it out, you better be able to take it?"

You will never, not in a million years, ever hear me pick on someone who doesn't dish it out. I'd never do something like that. If I pick on anyone, or bully anyone, I choose to pick on bullies.

Good post.

I don't think it's even possible to needle PH too much. Keep up the good work.

What bothers me even more than this is the fact that Phill Hellmuth isn't smart or superior AT ALL.

I don't mind Einstein having some justified arrogance against me when i try to talk about physics but... you get the point.

And I even forget he started berating the dealer. Ffs somebody punch that fool in the face

Daniel must be proud to have the biggest troll on this board praising him.,

DANIEL ......... the poker world does not need you to be the hero and save all us average joe's , please dont spin this to you doing everyone a favour .

Instead of bashing the so called fish that is hellmuth , maybe you should improve your cash game where when you criticize hellmuth your critisicm has some kind of merit.

I was a fan of yours and so was my wife but these last 2 weeks we both have seen something in you that is very ugly , This is not the same person who was freindly and likable that we have followed for years . You have mentioned his actions cause you to do these yet you are reaching to his level and looking as bad as he does in his worse times . 2 douchebags dont make a right

I hope you go back to your roots , cause we miss the person we used to praise as someone who made us proud to be a poker player and even more a proud canadian represantitive.

I respect your opinion and hear where you are coming from. I have worked on my own game and felt like I did well against the tough competition. We should make it clear once again, though, that I was never claiming to be the best player in that game. I never made the comparison of me vs PH. I made the comparison of PH vs. that lineup and put my money where my mouth is.

I'll always be nice to strangers. I'll always be nice to most everyone. I'm just not going to give PH a pass. He doesn't deserve one.

By no means do I think I'm doing the poker world a favor, I just don't see any real solid reason why I shouldn't needle PH when the opportunity presents itself.

You have every right to judge me for that, and if you don't like what you see, I can respect that completely. We'll just have to agree to disagree in terms of what is suitable behavior with a guy like PH.

I think Daniel's got several perfectly good reasons to needle PH. I'm surprised this has caused so much controversy... with so much money changing hands, and poker being such a serious game, why are people getting so worked up about a little bit of needling? At least DN hasn't abused total strangers at the tables before.

Thank you , very respectful and well said .Good luck Daniel.

On the one hand, DN really comes off looking bad when he's going at it with Hellmuth right out of the gate. It's not Zeidman level bad, but it's not something to be proud of. Unfortunately, there is really no good way to go after pieces of **** like Hellmuth without coming off as one yourself.

On the other hand, tilted Hellmuth makes for good TV, and he really does tilt from the abuse. In both episodes where someone went after him, he eventually went off the deep end and made highly amusing plays.

+1

Anything that gives you a tiny edge at the table should be used, unless it is inappropriate. This by DN was not inappropriate at all.

The needling has earnt DN ~150k from Hellmuth (I guess the top set v straight was just a cooler and needling didn't affect that, but the min re raise to 30k certainly).

Its like sledging in cricket. It makes the game more interesting, creates more rivalry and more fun. As long as it doesn't go over the top.

Nothing more boring and gay then the people who always say "nice hand, sir" and chit like that. They all sound like churchies.

dn is horrific. His online results speak for themselves.

Winningest live tournament player of all time.

Daniel, I'm trying to get your perspective on this. I guess if I had the history with PH's shenanigans like you have over these years, maybe I would feel compelled to give it to him whenever I can. I can't walk a mile in your shoes, so I won't give you any more grief.

After all this is a guy you have had to work with, not regularly, but often enough, and over many years. We have all worked with fools, and I know it just gets to be too much to deal with at times. You have got to let it out sometimes. Just don't be a Zeidman.

i would agree that DN's interactions with PH in the pad games these last two weeks haven't shown him in the best light. I think that PH's abusive outbursts do deserve calling out and i think that the insurance bs is as annoying as hell and i don't mind trying to chivvy that along much, but i think the general booking chitchat and so on is like a mud fight - no matter who wins both sides get a bit dirty in the exchanges.

My personal preferred option in the face of PH's blather and self promotion would be to just ignore it. Yeah when he starts abusing people he needs to be put in his place, and it's unacceptable, but the whole "imma gonna trap yous" crap is unworthy of even acknowledgement - just talk amongst yourselves.

I am generally a fan of DN's, and not of PH's in case it was not plainly obvious, if only because of the pair's differnet public presentation, so make of it what you will

Daniel challenge PH to put his money where his mouth was and have Daniel book him.

Right there, Daniel decided to try and tilt him as much as possible.

Then PH called Daniel ugly, like PH is a supermodel, check the mole, hope its cancerous.

Any chance now Daniel will get the needle out.

A big attaboy to you Daniel.

PH deserves anything that get dished out to him.

thats how i saw it also. made him look like a total jackass.

thats how kids act. so by him being a dickhead it gives you a right to be a dickhead too? guess what you're both dickheads now. i think you're one of the good guys in poker. dont let PH drag u down.

A little off topic, but did anyone find it funny that Phil Hellmuth had to ask how many outs he had with top set vs Ivey's straight? This guy calls himself the best nlhe player in the world, at the peak of his powers, and he doesn't know how many outs a set has against a straight?

LIFE NITS ITT.

DN is always pretty upbeat and seems cool enough. So he's not in the same league as Dwan/Antonius/Ivey either, who gives a ****.

PH is a whiny whiny biatch who sucks at poker. And even if he didn't suck quite as much as he does it's kind of irrelevent IMO coz his attitude would more than make up for the extra deserved disdain people would feel for him, its kinda late so I'm not sure if that sentence makes sense but who cares.

Damn, WHO CARES that DN needles PH a bit, he deserves it and I can't believe its a discussion worthy of 7 pages. I admit I haven't read the OP or any of the thread properly coz again it's late but I'm pretty sure that's what this threads about so yeah theres my 2cents. Bunch of life nit haters itt.

There's been a few references to Cory Zeidman's interaction with Phil Hellmuth, I thought I'd post his response:

i think it's fair for dn to have drawn the line at a point after enough terrible behavior and is now letting him have it. i mean, ph's behavior on tv had led to yrs of abuse towards dealers and weaker players by 1/2 "pros"

most of my friends ideas on poker is a dbag in sunglasses screaming at a guy for not only having AA/KK

God zeidman was a douchebag , I pray he dont show up in this thread , but Im guessing he will , guy googles himself daily.