Are there any dedicated, free standing poker rooms out there that are not attached to a race track or a casino, but set up in their own establishment? I have never seen one, but I think if they catered to the players with food, drinks, massages, concierge service, recreational activities while waiting for tables, or anything else that would come to mind that would influence the players to WANT to come back, would it work?

Tunica is the best place where they take care of players.

Maybe?

(I don't normally give one-word responses, but it seems appropriate here)

And no, there are no poker rooms that aren't in a casino in my area.

Yeah, but again, there all part of a casino environment and not in there own separate establishment. I talking about something similar like a pool hall, where you only go to play pool, instead of a nightclub with 2 or 3 pool tables stuck way in the back that are in crappy shape with torn felt and warped cue sticks and they're only there to keep people who can't dance occupied.

Sorry, I guess I'm a little lost by why maybe "seems appropriate here"? It's a simple question, either you know of one or you don't.

There are plenty of them in California. Some other states also have small poker "clubs", usually in strip malls; I know at least Arizona and Ohio do.

I think California cardrooms are not allowed to have "casinos". e.g. house-banked games. But you're not likely to find all that ancilary crap to cater to the players because there isn't enough margin in poker to pay for all that.

Pretty sure the card clubs in Seattle use this model, but I've never played there.

Vienna, Austria has many card rooms that are not casinos. I believe the reason is that the government has a monopoly on games played against the house and it exercises that monopoly through the Casino Austria brand. But because poker is not played against the house, poker rooms exist many places in Vienna. (I'm sure they also exist in Austria outside of Vienna, but I am unfamiliar with areas outside of Vienna.)

LA cardrooms are pretty much what you're talking about. Commerce DOES have a small section for BJ and maybe some other games, but 80% of their gaming area is poker. Everything else that is there is supported by the poker, not the other way around. Restaurants, a bar, and the hotel.

Near Montreal, other than the casino this is the norm. They're not allowed to do pit games, in fact, just poker.

Right. $200/hr drop isn't enough.

And, at least in the Bay Area, the larger clubs are all 50% or more Asian games with "the Corporation" banking the game.

Personally I like having the casino there:

a)I'm not tempted by it - I don't have any secondary gambling urges/leaks.
b)I like having random dropins that are not seasoned poker players - or people that come to both gamble in the pits and play some cards. I know I make money from both of these player types.
c)Access to the nicer restaurants is nice to have even though I rarely indulge.

Assuming you found an area where you could legally open a poker room that spreads live games and tournaments...

I think if you offer all those services you mention for "free," you'd probably have to charge so much rake that it wouldn't be worth it for a lot of players.

If you charged for them, they wouldn't be much of a draw.

If you offered all of them for free and offered a decent rake structure, I think it would be a draw, but I'm not sure how much of a profit you'd show with just poker.


I'm assuming you'd be using your hybrid tables in these rooms as well?

If so, you would cut down on operational costs by not having to pay dealers, but I think your start-up costs would be a lot higher(I would imagine hybrid tables are pretty expensive) and I still don't think people like these tables.

Actually, most of the California card rooms (at least in L.A.) *do* have all that ancillary crap. I play NL primarily at the Bike, where food is comped for 2/3 and above, shuffle masters at all tables, massages (for a fee), a small computer game area, wifi in certain parts of the casino, valet parking, etc. etc.

There is a great trend in Oregon with small Card Rooms opening up that spread cash games and tourneys. Most of them are $5 door fee (good for the whole day), and instead of a Rake they are taking a 5% chip fee. Example: you pay $5 to get in and buy $200 in chips, the house gives you $190 and keeps $10 for the 'chip fee'. After that there is NO RAKE. The dealers are what they call 'volunteer professional dealers' who are working for tips only. For me, I think this represents a better deal than what the casino down the road is offering; $5 dollars taken out of every post-flop pot ($1 jackpot dropped every time flop or no flop) and still the expectation of tipping.

That's an interesting concept, the voluntary dealers. I'd guess that they are mostly retirees or military vets, who are on either Medicare or TRICARE.... or like to roll the dice wrt no health insurance. Not sure how they could afford it otherwise.

This is not the case. All the dealers I have encountered in these settings are younger, working age adults with some in their early 20's. The interesting thing is that, in my opinion, the dealers at these establishments have been, on average, somewhat superior to the dealers at my local casino in both technique and temperament. It may be the effect of having to rely solely on players appreciation (i.e. tips) for their income. Also, as many of these rooms have been open for well over a year now, there is a pretty low turnover rate, suggesting that it is working well from the dealers perspective.

OK, but I'm not sure what you mean by this is not the case.... then they're all rolling the dice? Surely they aren't all on mom and dad's insurance plans. Perhaps they only do it very part time, with full time gigs elsewhere that allows them the bennies?

What town is this in?

You might be underestimating the amount of people out there who have no health coverage of any kind. It's downright common.

Or overestimating the level of coverage by "regular" cardrooms (not only quality but the number of dealers classified as 'part time' and not given any benefits).

Another thing he is overlooking is the tax issues. How much do you think the dealers report?

There are 5-10 rooms like this in, and close to, Portland. However Multnomah County has an ordinance banning cash games so in that area these rooms are limited to tourneys. The rooms that have the 'volunteer professional dealers' have an optional dealer bonus (usually around 10 bucks) that serves as the gratuity and is divided by the dealers. I have also seen tourney winners add something to the pool as well.

Outside Multnomah County and the immediate Portland area you have http://www.acesuppokerclub.moonfruit.com/ in Dallas and Eugene.

Also http://www.blackdiamondpokerroom.com/ in Albany. Both these places are very nice and comfortable (newer tables and chairs).

There are a few more clubs like this in Eugene. Also, there is a well run, no rake no entry fee game in Bend at http://www.rivalsbend.com/ that always goes after their tourney players begin to bust out, usually 1/2 NLHE $100 cap(about half the time the cap is increased by player consensus). Rivals does not provide dealers and the house rule is that if no one volunteers, the dealer is selected by low card among those at the table who have not had their turn(1 hour then select again). Oh yea, and its a sports bar so you have tableside cocktail and food service. IMHO this is the best place to play in Oregon. There is a 2/5 uncapped NLHE game on Monday that is assume (mando straddle, double straddle, $1500 buy in's, etc.). There are regular O8 and 2/5 PLO games weekly but a don't play in those. I here the Omaha games are sick.

FWIW I don't play the tourneys in these rooms very often because I don't, for example, like to pay $35 ($5 door fee, $20 buy-in, $10 dealer bonus) and only have $20 of it go into the prize pool. But for an evening of ring game play i don't think a casino came come close to providing as good of value.