The only place you can't get a hand as a moved player in a tournament (TDA rules) is the only place you can buy the button in a cash game.

Between the small blind and the button.

What is that rule? I'm not much of a tournament player, but here's something that happened to me late in the last tourney I played (at the Mirage): After playing both blinds, my table broke, and I was moved to a new table, where I immediately played both blinds again.

It really crippled mystack, but figured it was just bad luck. Now I'm wondering if there was some rule that should have prevented that.

No. Thats luck of the draw. However when a player comes from a broken table they can come in as the button or small blind if thats the seat they draw.

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OK, good to know. Now I can be happy.

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The rule rarely comes into play unless the tournament director stops all play while breaking a table because the button will typically pass by before the table gets broken and the new player gets seated.

I'm not a tourney player either. Can you describe this procedure? How was he chosen?

When the tournament director breaks a table he has seat draw cards for the open seats on the other tables. Each player draws a card.

When you take your new seat at the new table you get a hand unless you are between the SB and the button.

You can come in on the button or SB or BB.

Sure as players bust out of the tournament the Floor will collect seat cards from the dealers corresponding to the now empty seats.

So player at table 1 seat 4 busts out, the tournament director gets the seat card for Table 1 Seat 4 from the dealer.


When there are enough empty seats to break a table, the Floor or TD will go to the table that is designated next to break and distribute the seat cards randomly. The players will rack up and move to there new seats.


This is different from the procedure used to balance tables. When balancing tables the TDA rules say you move the player who is about to be the Large Blind and place them in the worst available position at their new table.

Ah, okay thanks. That's what I thought about the balancing procedure, so I was wondering why he had to pay the blinds twice. Now I understand it was a table break with a different procedure.

At the Mirage, we didn't draw for new seats. A staff member just handed us our new seat cards individually.

I have seen TD's shuffle the seat cards in their hands and distribute them around the table to save time.

Well its either that or risk what happened to OP. You pick.

The lesson to learn here is that you don't have to choose, IMO.

In a situation like this just ask if the hand is live before you look at the cards. In fact when the first card is dealt - which is standard TDA rules.

When the dealer says the hand is live if the player arrives then you play as if the player is at the table.

I know I will apply this lesson when I play in rooms other than FW and the Borgata.

I know, but we are talking about a situation where you asume TDA rules are used and this hand is dead and all of a sudden the dealer is letting this player play the hand and your are all "WTF"... So at this point it would be a good idea to speak up or risk what happened to OP. I agree with you otherwise.

Why would you ever assume that?

Protecting your hand comes up all the time in situations where you would otherwise assume there is no need to. That is really the whole point.

Once you are in the situation I'm not sure it matters much what you do. I would speak up. But my expectations would be low. If the Dealer thinks that the room's policy is to be friendly and let people play hands if they are approaching the table then it is likely that the Floor will back them up.

Because...

What? Why wouldn't you assume that?

Read psandman's post for a reason never to assume anything, regardless of what anybody says.

To go to that extent is pure paranoia and shouldn't be necessary. Good reason to play elsewhere.

We're still waiting for you to finish the story.

Not sure what "House rules TDA" means. Is it TDA is the house rules? Or is it that there are House Rules that supercede TDA sometimes?

Lets assume that the house rules are TDA. And lets further assume that we verified this before we sat down.

As soon as the first card is dealt to the SB who is not there I would (and do) speak up to verify that his hand is dead. If the dealer says anything to dispute that "fact" I will immediately call over a Floor. Then we will have a discussion about TDA rules. And we will further have a discussion about how another Floor told me that TDA rules were in effect without mentioning the word "sometimes". I imagine that the TD would be getting involved in this conversation.

This is excessive and annoying. I mean you could at least give the dealer the chance to finish dealing and collect the dead hands before you speak up.

That's true, but assuming at any point after the hand isn't killed immediately is silly.

That literally answers my question I guess, but it's an insane burden, and strictly speaking, it means you can never know anything ever. Even confirmations might be untrue. Up might be down, and you would not be sure even if you were to witness a floorperson rule that up is not down. The ruling itself might not even stand. Mucked cards are not mucked.

You would play every tournament effectively blind to every rule and procedure, no matter how standard, because you shouldn't assume anything.