From what I've seen, the Bay Area is the toughest around. Or, more accurately, least easy. Different markets breed different players. We don't get tourists here. Ever.
From what I've seen, the Bay Area is the toughest around. Or, more accurately, least easy. Different markets breed different players. We don't get tourists here. Ever.
excellent excellent point, thank you.
also i have to believe there is a considerable dead money factor from coked out showbiz types pissing away their advances for their freshly optioned screenplay etc... maybe thats a NL thing tho..
What do we have here? Most of the people playing the low to mid limits are people with enough money to live comfortably but not super-rich. They're sitting around waiting for the jackpot, just pushing chips back and forth while the house takes its $4/hand. They don't care too much about the money, but they care enough not to throw it around too much. Through sheer brute force repetition they've picked up at least a few not-horrible habits, and the big fish don't tend to be readily replaced on a nightly basis. Lots of people see a lot of hands, there's a whole lot of variance. In short, it's a grind.
They still mostly suck, don't get me wrong, but it can be painful to play.
I play the Bay . I've been to the commerce once and played for 2 days . Played $200 buy in and $400 buy in . I won some and got a super discount on the hotel room . First thing I noticed was everyone talked on their cell phone down there . People kept calling my all in with 2 over cards like it was mandatory . There were a couple of good players but they stuck out like a sore thumb and I avoided them . I agree with the no tourists here theory . Just like when I go to Tahoe the games are much softer than what I am used too . I'm not the best by any means but thats my observation .
I do like the buy in structure much better than up here . Play the $200 buy in and everyone has to buy in for $200 . Up here they let clowns buy in for $40 , just terrible .
with its immense size it stands to reason you can find better money making opportunities in l.a versus san fran. but if you count in the quality of experience the bay area wins hands down. the dealers are good and friendly and the players act civilized and are capable of holding an intelligent conversation with you. you can go for a walk right from the casinos if you want without too much fear. there are many nice places close by to go to and the drive is short compared to l.a.
but if you just want to play higher stakes and never leave the joint l.a. wins easily.
For mid limit LHE (versus NL) Commerce would have to be on your visit list if you want some table selection. Ray Zee is right about the "environmental" factors." I also agree that NL seems to attract the stupid $. But Commerce gets very few tourists, too, at other than than lowest stakes games. As evidence of the "tourist" factor I submit my results where Commerce is my "home game." Across 3 yrs of data, my overall win rate is between .25-.5/BB/hr. (It would be better if I never heard about Omaha!) In that time I've made 10 trips of 3-4 days to LV. My record there is 9 wins, just 1 loss. I WISH I had that kind of record at Commerce. But to maintain that LV win rate, I've had to switch to NL as my key game in LV to find good table selection.
I've suggested before that at mid-level games with mid-level skills, the key factor is table selection, regardless of location, regardless of which casino. It's smart to look for the soft spot.
At medium stakes in LA, there is just a constant influx of people who play pretty poorly and have way to much cash running through their hands.
There are a LOT of business owners in LA and it does not hurt that they largely come from cultures where gambling is accepted and encouraged. So people flush with cash + have a gambling background sans slot machines = for excellent poker.
I feel like there is no difference in game quality for 20/40 and 40/80 limit and in some cases the Bay Area might be better. My 30/60 game is much softer on average than any Commerce 40 I have played in. Not that it isnt soft. The 80/160 is generally tougher than the 60/120 at Commerce though.
I feel like there is no difference in game quality for 20/40 and 40/80 limit and in some cases the Bay Area might be better. My 30/60 game is much softer on average than any Commerce 40 I have played in. Not that it isnt soft. The 80/160 is generally tougher than the 60/120 at Commerce though.
I think Pfapfap's description would have been more apt ten years ago than it is now. MitchL is right: The Oaks 30 is amazingly soft, and the 15 can be unbelievable.
That said, the Commerce is poker's Happy Hunting Ground.
