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08-31-2010 , 09:25 AM

tmc123

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 34

Darvin Moon was issued a one hand penalty for checking the nuts in the 2010 WSOP main event. Would he have been given the same penalty if he was bet into and just called instead of raising?

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08-31-2010 , 09:38 AM

fedex123

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 7

Why would you penalize someone who flopped the nuts and checked ? That doesnt make sense to me. I am pretty new to poker but if I flopped the nuts I would check it down or bet minimal and hope the guy catches.. Am I wrong with this thinking?

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08-31-2010 , 09:39 AM

The Mind Reader

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 576

The penalty is for if you are in last position on the river and check the nuts. What happens on the flop has nothing to do with it

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08-31-2010 , 09:46 AM

joboggi

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 695

This stops collusion. If you have the nuts and you are last to bet, you have to bet. Otherwise, your mate could get off easy, and keep his chips.

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08-31-2010 , 10:00 AM

psandman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmc123

Darvin Moon was issued a one hand penalty for checking the nuts in the 2010 WSOP main event. Would he have been given the same penalty if he was bet into and just called instead of raising?

yes

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08-31-2010 , 10:05 AM

texas1981

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by joboggi

This stops collusion. If you have the nuts and you are last to bet, you have to bet. Otherwise, your mate could get off easy, and keep his chips.

i am with this guy right here y wouldnt you bet

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08-31-2010 , 10:35 AM

bigtex21

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmc123

Darvin Moon was issued a one hand penalty for checking the nuts in the 2010 WSOP main event. Would he have been given the same penalty if he was bet into and just called instead of raising?

Yes and the penalty is for checking or just calling on the river. What happens on the flop or turn has nothing to do with it.

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08-31-2010 , 10:43 AM

bwolf

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 292

honestly a 1 hand penalty? lol

Im sure it was just a warning type of thing but whats the big deal with 1 hand. If it was someone who was actually colluding 1 hand is a big whoop dee doo. Aside from checking to keep a bubble alive so you can keep abusing the blinds type of thing I think the penalty should be greater.

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08-31-2010 , 10:45 AM

ShortyTheFish

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,941

Anyone dumb enough to not bet the nuts when checked to them on the river deserves a penalty, IMO.

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08-31-2010 , 10:51 AM

#10

bigtex21

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwolf

It is normally a 1 round penalty.

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08-31-2010 , 10:51 AM

#11

psandman

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmc123

Darvin Moon was issued a one hand penalty for checking the nuts in the 2010 WSOP main event. Would he have been given the same penalty if he was bet into and just called instead of raising?

one other thing .... this penalty probably would not have been only one hand if it was an unknown player. Most people would probably get a 1 round penalty or worse.

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08-31-2010 , 10:55 AM

#12

bigtex21

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

one other thing .... this penalty probably would not have been only one hand if it was an unknown player. Most people would probably get a 1 round penalty or worse.

You are correct here "known" players and pros always seem to get either a warning or a reduced from normal penalty.

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08-31-2010 , 11:22 AM

#13

psujohn

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,173

Known player on a TV table on day 1 of the ME. The floor didn't even want to give him the 1 hand penalty and only did so because it was brought up at the table and it would look really bad.

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08-31-2010 , 11:36 AM

#14

ChriSquared

adept

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 848

what happens if there is a rainbow broadway on the board?

As in... 10 J Q K A rainbow.

If someone bets (not all in), and the other player elects to call, does he get a penalty?

HMMMMMM

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08-31-2010 , 11:38 AM

#15

The Mind Reader

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 576

Good question. If two people have identical nuts, is the last caller penalized if anything less than them both being all-in happens?

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08-31-2010 , 12:13 PM

#16

psandman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChriSquared

what happens if there is a rainbow broadway on the board?

As in... 10 J Q K A rainbow.

If someone bets (not all in), and the other player elects to call, does he get a penalty?

HMMMMMM

There can be an valid argument for this (assuming you are talking about the last player to act) ...... Most likely a penalty would not be issued in this instance as this call (as opposed to a all-in raise) is most frequently a convenience to game thing and not soft play.

The penalty is for soft play .... not for checking the nuts as last to act on the end. Checking the nuts on the end as last to act is merely evidence of soft play.

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08-31-2010 , 02:08 PM

#17

DCJ001

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmc123

Darvin Moon was issued a one hand penalty for checking the nuts in the 2010 WSOP main event. Would he have been given the same penalty if he was bet into and just called instead of raising?

Yes.

Also, based on the TV coverage, Moon never looked at his hand again after the flop.

I'm sure that he did not realize that he back-doored the nuts.

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08-31-2010 , 02:28 PM

#18

The Mind Reader

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 576

cause there's no way Darvin Moon could remember his hole cards for a whole 5 minutes after looking at them once

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08-31-2010 , 02:37 PM

#19

evilbooyaa

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 299

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCJ001

Yes.

Also, based on the TV coverage, Moon never looked at his hand again after the flop.

I'm sure that he did not realize that he back-doored the nuts.

He knew he had it, but he didn't bet because he wanted to see what the other guy was betting into him with for 1 or 2 streets.

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08-31-2010 , 03:16 PM

#20

St Bernadino

old hand

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,669

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShortyTheFish

Anyone dumb enough to not bet the nuts when checked to them on the river deserves a penalty, IMO.

Darvin Moon explained that he wanted to see villain's hand. He knew a bet wasn't getting called, so he figured he would get some value by seeing villain's hand.

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08-31-2010 , 03:27 PM

#21

AngusThermopyle

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,929

Quote:

Originally Posted by St Bernadino

Darvin Moon explained that he wanted to see villain's hand. He knew a bet wasn't getting called, so he figured he would get some value by seeing villain's hand.

How did he know that? If he is that good, he should know what his opponent has.

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08-31-2010 , 03:55 PM

#22

Ultrazord

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,439

Should Phil Ivey be penalized a round for mucking a flush when someone shows top pair? Even the best can forget their cards.

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08-31-2010 , 04:00 PM

#23

psandman

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,830

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultrazord

Should Phil Ivey be penalized a round for mucking a flush when someone shows top pair? Even the best can forget their cards.

If they knew it happened at the time it could be considered evidence of soft play. You can evaluate his claim that he didn't know what he had and make your judgment about whether it was soft play or not. In the case of Mr. Moon apparently he doesn't claim he didn't know what he had.

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08-31-2010 , 04:14 PM

#24

Joee

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 848

Darvin didn't know he had the nuts, his explanation is just an attempt to not have to admit he cannot remember his whole cards for the length of an entire hand.

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08-31-2010 , 04:30 PM

#25

DCJ001

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilbooyaa

He knew he had it, but he didn't bet because he wanted to see what the other guy was betting into him with for 1 or 2 streets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by St Bernadino

Darvin Moon explained that he wanted to see villain's hand. He knew a bet wasn't getting called, so he figured he would get some value by seeing villain's hand.

Just because he said what he said, doesn't make it true.

Last year, he told his wife that he had a different hand after he folded to an all in bet that was just a little bit more than his raise.

He flopped a pair, and he thought that it may have been good.

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