Playing 1-2 NL at a casino where cash plays. All players have 1 or 2 bills behind them, but no one has made a clear count of who has what. Two fish have been running great, have massive stacks, and have been pushing the action. 3 players get their money all in on a Q367hhhhTx board. The shortest stack of the 3 is a local grinder who has the Ah and one of the fish has 45hh and ships with the straight flush. The dealer is pulling the grinders stack away and someone catches the grinder pocketing some of the bills. He gets called out on it, floor comes over. Grinder FINALLY admits to pulling money off table, but claims he illegally added it during the hand and it shouldn't have played anyways. Floor goes to camera and this is confirmed. In this case, player was TRYING to cheat, didn't do it successfully, so should he still have to pay up with what was on the table? Your thoughts? Ill give result at the end.

I'm actually okay with making the bills play in this instance (which should be his last han at the casino anyway).

I don't think you can really make him pay what he ILLEGALLY put on the table in the first place, but I don't let him buy back in and ban him indefinitely.

Let him back in a month or so if he writes an apology and is a decent reg there.

Bills should play since they would've if he'd won...I doubt he would've been so forthcoming if his hand had been good.

Also...a KITN is standard in this spot.

Money added illegally during the hand does not play. Period.

And cheaters should be barred permanently. Period.

If he had won the hand I would hope someone at the table would realize he had too much money.

Ik I would be wondering how he got X amount of bills while he hasn't taken a pot down bigger than X amount in a while. Someone woulda realized either way I'm guessing.

And I could see a permanent ban being the best solution. But people make mistakes. Ban him long enough that he knows he's a douche bag in the very least.

Tell him if he puts the money back on the table he doesn't get banned. Once he does, ban him

Shoot him.

I kinda like this. I would also making a showing of him getting the ban as well. Maybe ask him to leave and announce the perma-ban over the PA system in the poker room (or casino if you can).

No, since it was added illegally it doesn't count.

But he should be banned.

OP told us that no one at the table really had any idea what anyone had. In games that have been going for a long time its easy for players to not know .... if they don't ask.

This wasn't a mistake. This was a two very intentionall acts .... first cheating by trying to add money when he thought he had the nuts. Second by trying to remove money after he realized he lost. Personally I would like to see such a move prosecuted criminally though I don't expect it to be ...... but I certainly don't think a temp ban is adequate to protect the integrity of the games.

Winner

EDIT: Oh and I'm pretty sure even if he was PERMAbanned you can still get unbanned with a good letter and a good personality.

He should pay,be banned and be prosecuted.

If he's a reg and there are no other poker rooms in the area a 6-month ban will be enough punishment for a small-stakes degen/grinder/reg

I really hate that the cheater gets to potentially freeroll with the additional bills if nobody had noticed that they were added and he won the pot. That's so gross.

So villain decides to admit to cheating, knowing he's likely to get a permaban or something pretty serious, all in the name of MAYBE getting back however much cash (I'm thinking maybe $500, max?) he lost? Gotta love logic.

Another reason it is sub-optimal to allow cash to play. Definite perma-ban for this guy and if I was a local, I would out him as a cheat if I saw him playing at other casinos.

It was already being sent to the cameras, he admitted only mere minutes before he was going to get caught for it anyways.

The rule is the money is not in play since he added it illegally so the money can NEVER play, no matter how fitting that may seem.

He cheated, he gets banned. IMO, anyone at the table can and should spread the TRUTH about the player if thee see him anywhere else playing poker.

Dont ban him from the card room, just ban him from all poker tables in card room. Let him know he's free to play blackjack, pan, access the vending machines, bar/restaurant, and all the restrooms as he chooses.

I have to disagree with you on this. I don't think a player gets to turn himself ion for cheating and gain the benefit of it.

The money plays. He put it in play and got caught taking it out of play. He did not get caught putting it in play and the other players acted on it being in play. He would have won that amount had he won, so he loses that amount when he lose.

The rule is money added during the hand does not play. It may seem like a fitting punishment, but the rule is the rule. If the casino tries to make the added money play then the cheater has a valid complaint with the gaming commission. I'm assuming the casino has some written rules available that cover money added during a hand.

A ban is definitely in order. I don't know what punishment beyond that is available. Cheaters gonna cheat and I'd out him whenever I saw him playing again anywhere.

I agree with you that it should play..... but not certain we agree on how we get to that point.

Let me ask you this .... suppose the player had won. The dealer counts his stack and then players question how much he had ..... suppose then he either admits adding it during play or surveillance confirms he added it in play .... does he still get paid for that? I would say no ...... so your argument that he would have won that amount had he won is not really true. He would have won that amount had he not gotten caught and won.

It was added illegally, what IF he was the one to double up and no one said a word about him having bills that weren't supposed to play?
He sneaky put the bills in behind his stack to get in a hand a double up thru the monster stacks. He should pay what was on the table during that hand and getting banned for tryin to basically steal if you think about it