Err, 2+2 forums were sold and has new owners. There are threads in ATF and NVG.

I don't mind mods instructing people not stray too far off topic. I do mind when they simply purge a line of posts that we thought hard about. Readers should know about what people were actually thinking and saying.

Cliffs: this is a feature, not a bug.

Hi DMW, thanks for asking here. Here is the reasoning:

* For reference, here were the topics covered/argued about in the posts which were removed, from one of our Venues threads: whether and how masking yourself prevents catching CV, what it means for one's body to have "contained" the CV, whether people who are not vaccinated are fools, whether anyone is "vaccinated in reality". (Then there were a few posts which got into personal attacks and trolling too.) None of these topics have anything to do with the Venue in question, they are just straight up arguments about CV and the science around it.

* Posts on CV and its related (but non poker) ilk have been restricted to the containment thread for over a year, and probably closer to 18 months already now, in CCP and Venues. Everyone who had posts moderated has been on the forums for at least that long. All are regulars in this forum. Some are repeat offenders of this rule. Some seem to be general forum trolls. All are most likely well aware of this forum rule (and if not, now they hopefully are).

* For reference, here is an excerpt from our rule on what happens when you break a forum rule:
On containment threads:
On other contentious topic posts:
* If you wish to discuss (which unfortunately generally means argue) CV, masking, CV science, or any of the other related topics, you may do so in the containment thread. Or in numerous other fora here on 2+2. Or in literally millions of other places on the internet.

* You mentioned specifically losing posts you spent time creating. This is one of the (though not necessarily the primary) reasons we just delete these posts - the pain of wasted time. It is a negative reinforcement. Having learned that knowing and ignoring forum rules leads to your posts just getting deleted outright, how likely are you to continue to do it? Our hope is that posters will quickly (or eventually) learn not to violate these rules. Other moderators in other 2+2 fora pair post deletion or editing with infractions or other incremental penalties. We try to avoid that here in CCP, though we will occasionally go that route for flagrant violations or repeat offenders.

* Note that there are exceptions:
** Early on, we moved posts to the containment thread rather than deleting them, because it was a new rule and there were lots of violations and it was a topic of large import, but we stopped doing that a year ago.
** Sometimes a set of posts starts in good territory, then slowly moves into violation space. If I can catch this happening in time, I will sometimes just post a warning not to continue the debate and leave the minimally violating posts there. A typical example: initial posts talking about a change in policy at a room (fine), then some posts saying "I will/won't come with this rule" (basically fine), then some posts saying why the rule sucks (basically not fine). If allowed to continue, it will almost always then devolve into a bunch of arguing about CV science, then trolling, followed by flaming and personal attacks (definitely not fine).
** Outside of CV issues, I will sometimes edit, rather than delete, a post if: (1) I am at my computer rather than on my phone, where editing is a PITA, (2) it is a new poster who may not yet understand the rule they are violating, and (3) after editing to excise the objectionable content, there is still other content there worth preserving, possibly which has already led to continued discussion before I got to the post [typical example: a privacy violation that occurs while discussing a real topic of concern for the community].
** None of these exceptions apply to the set of posts you're referring to.

* As an aside, my moderation philosophy continues to be: start by trying not to moderate small violations, and hope that the community ignores them or does not engage, in essence letting you guys manage it yourselves. But if (and sadly, when) things snowball, or if a user reports the posts, then I take moderation action. And when that happens, I am more likely to moderate heavily, to make sure the behavior does not continue.

* It's not personal. I often don't even look at who is posting what, I just look at the content. I have even moderated some of Lattimer's posts in the past, without realizing it. And I hope he feels free to do the same to me.

Summary: I don't care if you want to give your hot takes on these topics, just do it in the containment thread, not in general CCP or Venues posts, so that they won't bother the people who don't want to read it. If you see someone else posting about it in a general thread, just ignore it. If you can't stand to let that post remain uncontested, then report it. Just don't respond to it in the same thread. If you must respond with your own viewpoint, move the discussion to the containment thread and continue it there.

A final note: in writing this post, I realized that the Forum Rules sticky actually did not mention the CV containment thread, so I added it, and noted specifically that containment thread violations may be deleted.

+1 for having your own code of fed regulations
+1 for knowing the correct plural of forum

Now just try enforcing said regs with a verbal warning first and posters will have a chance to move it to your preferred containment thread.

There's a new thread to discuss the feasibility of allowing Texas Poker Rooms to have their own individual threads in the Venues section instead of being lumped together into a single thread under Home Games.

One of the mods said we should also call attention to it here to ensure it was seen by the relevant staff

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/5...forum-1810796/

Thanks for linking it. I have responded in that thread.

Please note that browser2920 has rejoined as a mod of CCP (along with V&C). Other than adding his name at the bottom of the thread list, nothing much else should change.

Community members:

We recently received a request from a poster to delete a thread he had made in order to facilitate his reinstatement in a room. The mods here discussed.

We usually decline these requests, particularly after posts have received substantial community engagement, because the thread belongs to the community at that point, not to the OP. However, in this case, we have decided to proceed with the request, and to post a short summarized version of the thread here instead, because our opinion is that the benefit of deleting the thread to the real world poster outweighs the downside to the community.

You are, of course, welcome to comment on the moderation action taken here.

You are also welcome to comment on the post (or rather its summary I guess) here in this thread, or in the low content thread. But my request is that you please don't just try to recreate the thread that was deleted - we deleted it in order to facilitate the reinstatement of the player, and ask that you put yourself in that players shoes and consider avoiding making his life more difficult.

I know some of you took screenshots of the old thread, and good on you for that. Unless it somehow becomes truly needed for some future issue, however, please refrain from just reposting them, or doing anything like that.

We believe that this issue between the poster and the room will be resolved as a result of these actions, and have been told that they have ironed out the "misunderstandings" between them, whatever those were. If that ends up not being the case, we will revisit.

Thanks.

10/27/2023, redacted post "Banned From Horseshoe Baltimore"

I doubt everyone who posted and/or read the thread you are deleting will read this here. You might want to consider creating a thread that says what you said above without using the original post and without asking for comments in the new thread itself (you could point them to this thread if they want to comment)

Some ideas for titles:
"Baltimore, you never know what might happen"
"Turns out there is always hope"
"This site, forum, and community can actually help!"

Then you can close this new thread (so nobody can continue to post in public) and at least everyone will know what happened.

It may have been the right decision to lift out the thread in this case, there was that much specifically personal in there, so just a title change might not have been enough. If it's the exception confirming the rule of letting threads stay, we'll survive.

Not entirely forbidden. (Bobby's Breakroom)

Bobby’s Breakroom is probably the best thread in the entire 2+2 forum and I’m thrilled to see the mod(s) taking a more aggressive stance towards all the non-employees continually junking up the thread. I’m not sure what’s so difficult about the concept of if you don’t work in the industry you have zero business posting in the thread. It’s that simple. Yet there are non-employees that have hundreds of posts there!

Should there be another thread created where randoms can ask employees questions about what is discussed in the breakroom? It would of course devolve into the typical **** storm of a thread but at least it would keep the breakroom thread clean for the staffers to do their thing.

Do you really think my asking what two acronyms mean is "junking up the thread"? When one of them is something even the mod didn't understand?

Also, how exactly do you know who is an employee and who isn't? I "work in the industry".

I did not call any individual out, I simply pointed out that non-employee posts junk up this great thread.

I don't know exactly who is an employee and who is not, I have simply read this thread for many years now and appreciate the insight from the inside. Although it is usually easy to tell who is an employee and who is not.

But I do remember this.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...=#post55222802

Now that has been a while, perhaps something has changed. But that's for a mod to decide.

All I'm saying is that in my opinion the thread is infinitely better with employee only chatter and I appreciate the mod(s) recent statements on this. Not my decision either way. You have your opinion, I have mine.

The rules also say it’s not a place for people to ask general questions of the employees

Question is if it should be clinically free from others posting. Then it should read in post #1. Now it states "post sparingly"

Yes, I know your comment wasn't specifically directed at me, but the moderator specifically criticized me and then you said you liked the crackdown.

There were several other non-dealers who made long opinion posts in the last few days, but those were not criticized. All I did was ask what two acronyms meant. I don't think if I randomly asked that question in another thread it would make sense.

Also, there is a difference between being a card room employee and working in the industry. I replied to the one you mentioned, then you quoted back the other.

Looks intolerance put this forum asleep.

Maybe not intolerance, but misunderstanding. Bobby's Breakroom has a grey area, how much can non-employees post? Some non-employees read Post #1 as they can post some, if it adds to the discussion, others see it as it should be employees only. Add to that how to define "employee". These expectations may never meet well in the end. When in the forum it's not always easy to distinguish where you post and with which rules.

Maybe Bobby's Breakroom should be given its own subforum or sticky in CCP, so it would be easily distinguishable, and then clearly for active card room employees only?

You are talking to yourself and way overestimating how many people are confused about that thread.

A smaller amount may be enough for conflict and bad vibes at times.

Apologies for the delay in response. I have been traveling a lot the past couple weeks and this one got away from me.

Correct, not entirely forbidden. Somewhat by design it is a little bit permissive. But we should do what the OP says, and treat it like the employee breakroom. If you're not an employee, and you're posting in that thread, you should have a good reason for being there, just like you should have a good reason for being in the employee breakroom at the casino.

Sometimes accidents happen. It's a single thread with special restrictions inside a forum where you can generally post in every other thread at will. Occasionally someone will miss the fact that they are responding in the breakroom thread (I have done this myself plenty of times). Most of the time things move on fine, and that is fine, and I don't do anything (or even notice sometimes). Sometimes I might move the offending posts (and their replies) somewhere else if it makes sense. Sometimes I might just delete them if that is the easiest or best solution, but I don't think I do this very often.

I don't generally moderate accidents or other small intrusions there unless it is snowballing and causing lots of non-employee posts, or it's from someone I've warned before, or it's a blatant case of arguing with the employee that they are doing something wrong.

I generally think that the employees who post there are fine with this approach, but if anything I think they would probably want more moderation not less.

This is also a bit of an issue but one that I try to finesse as best I can. For many posters who have been in CCP a while, they will have identified themselves as dealers at some point, and I just kinda know who they are. Or vice versa, they have posted as players enough that I consider them players, not employees. (You are in this category for me, but at least in part because we play the same game and post in some of the same other forums so I know you are a player.) For some I will check previous posts to see if I can make an educated guess, but generally only if they are being a nuisance in the thread and I have some time to do some PI work. I will try to make user notes about people who are not obviously employees for future reference.

If in doubt, I will generally leave a post there, especially if it's not disruptive. The more it's inserting itself into someone else's conversation the more likely I am to do something about it.

But I'm definitely not the casino employee police, and I'm not going to catch every non-employee posting there, and may occasionally delete a post from someone who is an EE. I suggest that is probably the best we're going to get without a massive amount of extra work by someone, but I'm all ears if anyone has a better suggestion.

As for "work in the industry", I guess I'll leave it to the casino employees to decide if that is enough for them, but on its face I would say not generally. Treat it like an employee breakroom. If you would feel comfortable going into the breakroom at the casino holding whatever industry position you have, then sure. If you're comfortable defending your "being in the industry" to the other regulars in that thread, then go for it I guess.

It wasn't really intended as a direct criticism of you, rob, though perhaps it came off that way. (And as an aside, we have met in person and I enjoyed it, it's definitely not personal.)

It was more that there had just been a spate of non-employee posts, and I had just a few days before posted a reminder that it was the breakroom thread, and then you (a non-employee in my mind) asked a question of one of the employee posters, and I was just trying to reinforce the message. Had I not been on my phone I would have just moved it to LC or something and answered it there, probably, but since I couldn't do it then I instead answered and left a note about moving it later. (Which I never got around to doing, heh.)

In retrospect I do agree it was borderline for needing to be moderated at all, you just got unlucky that you posted it so soon after I had made a request to remember that it was the breakroom thread. (And I'm not sure what other posts that didn't get moderated you're referring to, as far as I can tell every post between yours and my earlier reminder were from employees.)

I'm totally open to having the employees get together and come up with a different or more detailed set of posting rules, that wouldn't bother me at all. It's their thread. I don't personally think it will be worth it, but maybe this set of posts proves differently.

I highly doubt it will get its own subforum, given that it's a single thread in an already lightly posted in forum. I'm not sure what giving it its own sticky would accomplish, either.

Wow, great answer!

Dinesh, I know it wasn't personal against me, but it did seem odd that you criticized that instead of the previous three people who chimed in the previous few days with their opinions about how dealers should handle particular things, which actually did seem weird to me.

At least I think none of them are dealers because they all referred to "dealers" as if they were not one, and I know one is a pro poker player.

I certainly was not claiming that I had any more right to participate than other non-employees, I was just annoyed with the guy in this thread who seemed incinsed about my post but then couldn't get his definition straight.

I am not a cardroom employee, but I do work in the industry, and I have applied for jobs in cardrooms. While my recent post was not related to that, I do think it would be reasonable for people looking for jobs in a cardroom to be able to ask questions about that kind of thing. Of course it would be up to individuals whether or not they felt like answering.

That kind of subjectivity is designed to invite problems. Even reading all of those paragraphs gives no indication as to how much non-employee (or quasi-employee) discussion should take place in that particular thread.